The Plain Values Podcast EP #37 – Walking Through Grief with Faith and Honesty w/ Marlin Beachy

Marlin Beachy:

One night just on a whim. They were at a barbecue with some friends and Ryan said, “I’m going to go on a ride.” And his girlfriend hopped on and they drove up the road just a couple miles and a moose ran into their path and he hit it broadside, killed him instantly. You can say all this stuff about trusting God and believing in his sovereignty. But when those things happen, you got to own it.

 

Marlin Miller:

Recently, I sat down with my old pastor and great friend, Marlon Beachy. Now, Marlon and I go way back and we talked about life. We talked about how he became a pastor and we also talked about the loss of their son, Ryan. In his book, Van Gogh has a broken heart, Russ Ramsey says these words. I think it’s extremely applicable to this conversation. He says, “The blessing of suffering is that it strips away any pretense of not needing God or others. It frees us from this exhausting comedy of having to pretend that we’re fine on our own.” That’s what Marlon’s heart is all about. Just being real, being authentic in the struggles of life. It is not an easy conversation, but it was a wonderfully valuable conversation. If you are struggling with loss or grief or you know someone who is, this conversation could be a great encouragement.

Please meet my friend Marlon Beachy. And if you like the content, if you get anything out of it, I will very humbly ask you to like and comment and smash that subscribe button. Thank you. This podcast is sponsored by my friends at Azure Standard. A while back, I had a chance to sit down with the founder, David Stelzer, right here at the table. And we had a great conversation. I love the Azure story. They started out as farmers back in the ’70s and I think in 1987, they began a nationwide food distribution company. And guys, they are non- GMO organic. They do it right. They do it so well. And you can get a truck to drop food right in your town. Check them out at Azurestandard.com and tell them Marlin and Plain Values sent you. You and I met. Oh, man. You and I met probably the first time.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, 2006.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay. I was thinking that was when you moved from Alaska to Ohio.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, that was when I came to speak at Countryside’s Missions Con.

 

Marlin Miller:

Oh my goodness. I forgot about that.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes. That’s

 

Marlin Miller:

Right.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

And I remember telling Lisa that is a kind of guy, that’s the guy that I want to get to know.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Wow.

 

Marlin Miller:

There was something about the way that you preached and just your whole demeanor, everything. We were very, very glad that you were there. I’ll just say that.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Wow. Thank you. Very glad.

 

Marlin Miller:

It was obvious to us really quickly that you are a pastor through and through, like a shepherd’s heart, not just … And I want to be careful what I say here because I think there are some pastors-

 

Marlin Beachy:

That’s a minefield, man. A career.

 

Marlin Miller:

Well, yeah. There are some pastors that they go to seminary because of some other reason.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

And it isn’t necessarily the same thing as having an actual calling.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

And I think we sense.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Definitely a calling. Definitely a calling.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

So let’s go back all the way back. You grew up as an Amish kid.

 

Marlin Beachy:

I did. Yeah. My folks were Amish until I was eight.

 

Marlin Miller:

Until you were eight.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. When my youngest brother was born, about that same time, my dad, I think, really had a conversion experience.

 

Marlin Miller:

Really?

 

Marlin Beachy:

And I think they’d wanted to leave the Amish before, but never did. And then it was in 1965. Okay. Dad drove in with a car one day. Wow. Are

 

Marlin Miller:

You serious?

 

Marlin Beachy:

You didn’t

 

Marlin Miller:

Have any idea.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No. Of course, they had been talking about it, but I didn’t know. The kids didn’t know. I’m the second of four kids.

 

Marlin Miller:

That’s what I was going to ask you.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. I have an older brother. He’s 11 months older, and then a sister that’s three years younger. And then my youngest brother is eight years younger.

 

Marlin Miller:

So you were eight when your mom and dad left.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes. Took

 

Marlin Miller:

You guys all, left the Amish church.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

I was five when mom and dad left the Amish church.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Do you remember it?

 

Marlin Miller:

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I remember being Amish. I mean, a little bit of it, not near everything.

 

Marlin Beachy:

I have one vivid memory from being Amish. And that was … We lived close to Sugar Creek going up the hill out of Sugar Creek, Steiningbright Ridge Road. And my mom told us that John F. Kennedy had been assassinated. So what was that? 1960 …

 

Marlin Miller:

Three. Three. Yeah, November 22nd.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. We were riding in the buggy and she said, John F. Kennedy, the president, has been assassinated. I’ll never forget that.

 

Marlin Miller:

How old would you have been? You were born in what

 

Marlin Beachy:

Years? 57, so I was six.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

When your mom and dad left, your dad just drove in with a car. Total shock to you guys.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Had he already sold the horse? That

 

Marlin Beachy:

Probably came later. I don’t remember. I do remember the Amish preachers coming, and it was a very somber time. I remember it was really serious. I knew something serious was going on, but I didn’t know what. Yeah. Being eight years old, you kind of know, but you don’t really know.

 

Marlin Miller:

Did your dad ever tell you about his conversion?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes. Yeah. He may have been a believer before then, but I think what happened was there was a guy at work that had left the Amish. Another couple that were good friends of my folks. And Jonas, I think, explained the gospel to my dad clear than he’d ever heard it. And I think my mom was already saved, but I think dad came to Christ about that time when they left. Wow. Although my grandpa was an Amish bishop and he loved the Lord.

 

Marlin Miller:

Really?

 

Marlin Beachy:

In fact, I just did that service out at Bethel for Jason Beachy. Yeah. And this old Amish guy came up. He 92 years old and he said, “I knew your grandpa.” He said, “He was a gem of a man. Great guy.” And I’ve heard that from many people. Yeah. But dad was kind of a black sheep, but he really had a deep convergent experience, came to Christ

 

Marlin Miller:

And … Yeah. And then moved the family. Yeah. Did you guys go to a Mennonite church after that for a

 

Marlin Beachy:

While? Yeah, Farmerstown Mennonite.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Well, what became Countryside Chapel.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Homer Candle was a pastor. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

I remember

 

Marlin Beachy:

Homer. People remember Homer, but he was a great guy.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah. So how did you end up in Alaska?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh, that’s a great story. I went to Bible college in Portland, Oregon, the school called Multnomah School of the Bible. And they had a journalism program, and I wanted to do journalism, photojournalism. I loved the camera, take pictures. And then I met my wife there, Sharon. She grew up in Alaska, born and raised in Alaska. And we got married in 1981, moved back here for a year. I went to Kent State and then thought we’d go to Alaska for a year. We stayed 30 years later. We

 

Marlin Miller:

Raised

 

Marlin Beachy:

Our family there and lived up there for 30 years.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay. You were in Alaska for 30 years, and in that time, if I remember right, you took on the role of a pastor at

 

Marlin Beachy:

A church.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

And

 

Marlin Miller:

That church grew pretty tremendously, right?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Well, it ended up being a couple different churches. Well, we changed the name.

 

Marlin Miller:

Ah, so it

 

Marlin Beachy:

Was the same church. Yeah. When I started, we had about 30 people. And most of them were missionaries at a Bible camp. And then we built a building and started inviting the broader community to join in, which they did. And we outgrew it. We had two services during the summer, a lot of tourists. And then we built another building that’s still there. And the church grew to 150 or so. About half the people in our community came to church, but we were really community focused. And I think we had strong community, good community.

 

Marlin Miller:

What were some of the hardest lessons that you had to learn as a young pastor?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Well, one, you don’t do things to please people. You do things for God’s glory and to please him. And so you can’t live in fear of man. I learned almost right away that life is hard. I had a guy, at the same time, we owned a bus business. The school districts in Alaska don’t own buses. They contract all that out. And we had a small contract for a local school. And one of the guys that drove for me had … He and his wife had two kids, and one afternoon in October, his wife and son were going to … We lived about 45 miles out of town, very mountainous region. They’re going to town in a snowstorm and lost control and got broadsided and killed.

 

Marlin Miller:

Both?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. So this guy loses his wife and his son. Just boom, they’re gone. And I’d only been in ministry a couple years. Like, wow, this is hard. And I’ve figured out right away from the beginning that this is life. It’s tough. And you’ve got to be there for people the best you can. You don’t know how to do it when you first start. What do you say to the guy that’s just lost his wife and his son? Or the guy, one of the most traumatic, I think, experiences I had in the early years was a young guy died in a plane crash, not a believer. Had only been married six months maybe. And his widow, his big funeral, like hundreds of people, and his widow, and they’re just wailing. I mean, they had no hope. You’re immediately thrown into things like that. I hope not everybody is, but I was.

And you like, wow. So yeah, you got to have a big heart and … Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

There’s a song by the name of … There’s a guy that wrote a song, and I forget the name of the song right now, but the guy who wrote it is Andy Gallahorn out of Nashville. And the song basically says, “It is better to grieve and better to walk the hard road than to not love at all.

 

Marlin Beachy:

“

 

Marlin Miller:

And I think I butchered the lyrics there, but that’s the point.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah,

 

Marlin Miller:

Grief. It’s the whole point.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Grief is the price of love. I mean, that’s what it is.

 

Marlin Miller:

Do you ever find yourself really struggling with that?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Because of all the pain

 

Marlin Beachy:

In the world. Right. Yeah, you do. Yeah. I can’t drive past the cross alongside of the road without praying for the people that lost that loved one. I mean, it just … Wow.

 

Marlin Miller:

So you guys were up there for 30 years.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

How many kids do you have?

 

Marlin Beachy:

We have three. We have a son. Well, we had a son. Ryan was born in 84, so he would be 41. He died some years ago. No, you want to talk about that. Melissa and her husband live in Alaska. She was born in 86, so she’s 39.

 

Marlin Miller:

39.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. They have three kids, great kids. They’re going to be here at Christmas.

 

Marlin Miller:

Cool.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Looking forward to that. Their oldest daughter, Eleanor, is almost 12. Oliver will be 10 in just three weeks. And the baby turns seven. Lucille, she’s a hoot. Yeah. And then we have another daughter, Rachel. She is 35. She’s still single. Beautiful young lady. Praying Lord. Come on. Yeah. What’s going on?

 

Marlin Miller:

And she’s in Alaska as well?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. They both live in Alaska. Melissa’s a school teacher. Her husband’s a commercial fisherman and in the Coast Guard, reserve. And then Rachel works for an engineering company. They’re doing well.

 

Marlin Miller:

Was your son-in-law at Gitmo?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes.

 

Marlin Miller:

That’s what I thought. I remember talking about that.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. The Coast Guard had a station there, but yeah, they shut it down.

 

Marlin Miller:

So he’s not there anymore?

 

Marlin Beachy:

No.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, he did two one year deployments to get Mo. That thing was almost destroyed by this hurricane.

 

Marlin Miller:

Are you serious?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah, it hit right over Gitmo. Oh

 

Marlin Miller:

My goodness. I didn’t know that.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Wow. So how old was Ryan when he passed him?

 

Marlin Beachy:

29.

 

Marlin Miller:

29 years old.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. No, 2013.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay. 2013.

 

Marlin Beachy:

2013.

 

Marlin Miller:

So can you tell that story

 

Marlin Beachy:

How

 

Marlin Miller:

That all went down?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. We had just been in Alaska for a niece’s graduation, like end of May, early June, 2013. I was pastor here then at the branch or countryside, as it was called then. Ryan dropped us off at the airport when we flew back. And three weeks later, he and his girlfriend were riding a motorcycle one night, just on a whim. They were at a barbecue with some friends and Ryan said, “I’m going to go on a ride.” And his girlfriend hopped on and they drove up the road just a couple miles and a moose ran into their path and he hit at Broadside and killed him instantly. She survived and not the same. She had a brain injury.

 

Marlin Miller:

Really?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. But we get a call, 3:09 in the morning, and I saw it was Sharon’s brother calling and I went, “Oh, this is not good.” And he said, “Ryan was killed in an accident.” And Sharon has a brother named Brian. So I said, “Did you say Ryan or Brian?” And he said, I said, “Ryan.” It was like shock. I hung up, look at the clock again. We had some friends staying with us and they were sleeping upstairs in our bedroom and I thought, “Did I just get that

 

Marlin Miller:

Call?” Like you almost had to … Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. So I called Dan back, Sharon’s brother, Dan. I called him back and I said, “Did you just call me? ” And he said, “Yeah.” Wow. So I mean, it’s hard to describe the shock. You feel at that moment, it’s like, wow. So anyway, right away we made … Well, then the troopers call and you get on the internet and you see the obituary already in the … Or not the obituary, but you see the story in the paper, motorcyclist killed in Moose Collision. The next day it was in USA Today.

 

Marlin Miller:

Really?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. USA Today has a little blurb from every state, and Alaska that day was Ryan’s accident. And then you see all these comments. “Oh, he wasn’t wearing a helmet, he deserved it. “All this kind of trashy … His girlfriend was wearing his helmet, that’s why she survived. So anyway, now you’ve got to deal with this, and it’s the hardest thing you’ll ever want to go through. It’s the hardest thing you never want to go through. So we made plans immediately to fly to Alaska, and we left that afternoon, and got there about eight or nine at night. And then, oh no, it was later than that, because we didn’t leave Pittsburgh until 5:00. So now you got to start dealing with what do we do for a service and all the arrangements that have to be made. It’s hard. It’s a tough thing.

 

Marlin Miller:

Was his girlfriend in the hospital for that? I mean, for a long time?

 

Marlin Beachy:

She was in a coma.

 

Marlin Miller:

She was in a coma.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Yeah. We went to see her, but she wasn’t conscious at all. And she just graduated with a master’s and she was an adjunct professor at University of Alaska in Anchorage, English prop, really sharp gal. And they’d been dating a long time and we expected them to get married, but God had other plans, all we can say.

 

Marlin Miller:

Do you guys still keep in touch with her?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah, we have. We haven’t seen her in a couple of years now. Interestingly enough, her dad died a year after Ryan died, had a heart attack and died. Wow. And her parents weren’t believers. Tracy was a believer, but her parents weren’t. And so we kept up with her for seven years, six, seven years, but we’ve kind of lost contact now. I mean, we haven’t seen her.

 

Marlin Miller:

You and I have talked over the years a lot about Ryan, about his passing, about the grieving process, if

 

Marlin Beachy:

You will. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Can you talk to how that impacts the way that you see God and the questions that I can’t even imagine that come up?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we learned right away … I have, as a pastor, tried to help many people through those kind of experiences. And you wonder, how do you get through that? Because it’s hard. I mean, it’s really, really difficult. I forgot to tell you, I graduated from Garaway High School, 1975. So we just had our 50 year class reunion.

 

Marlin Miller:

50 years. You’re officially an old fart. Yes.

 

Marlin Beachy:

I am an old fart. Wow. And they asked … 16 people from our class have already died, which is about average. We had about almost, I think right at 99 or 100 classmates, 16 have already died. So they asked me to do something at the reunion just to remember them, which I did. And I just in passing mentioned … Well, what I talked about was the fact that the date of birth is on a tombstone. We just ordered a tombstone for Ryan. It took us 12 years.

 

Marlin Miller:

Wow. No kidding. 12

 

Marlin Beachy:

Years. Some of it was neglect, it was just too hard to do, and some of it was just out of your mind, you don’t think about it. And so we finally got one and put it at his graveside as a private. He’s buried on a private on family property. But I mentioned that date of birth, date of death, and then the dash. And what’s important is the dash. It’s a person’s life, that dash in the middle between the date of birth and date of death. And I mentioned Ryan just in passing, and this gal came up to me afterward. I know her well. She was in our class and she and her husband have six children, but their youngest son committed suicide. And she said, she’s tears, just crying. She said, “We finally ordered a tombstone for our son.” I said, “How long has it been?” And it was longer than Ryan.

Yeah, go ahead.

 

Marlin Miller:

Well, is the act of ordering a tombstone, because I remember talking to my mom about doing that for my dad.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Is that the final thing of accepting it or is it like the last stage?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah, I think so. It was for us. I wouldn’t speak for everyone, but I think it was for us. And some of it was just the logistics of it. We’re here, all that’s in Alaska. We finally found that you can get them at Amazon.

 

Marlin Miller:

What?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

You can order

 

Marlin Beachy:

Gravestones. Yeah, just a small … We didn’t want something big and ostentatious. It was just something that marks the grave and you can get them at Amazon and they shipped it, right? I didn’t know

 

Marlin Miller:

That

 

Marlin Beachy:

Amazon

 

Marlin Miller:

Has those things.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah, they do. Yeah, it’s crazy. Anyway, going back to grief, what we learned … Well, one thing we learned is that, just be blunt, you can say all this stuff about trusting God and believing in his sovereignty, but when those things happen, you got to own it. And so what Sharon and I said is, do we believe what we believe? I mean, do we really believe it? Or are we just mouthing so many words? The Bible talks about testing of our faith, and it can be smaller things, but that was a real, real test, really hard test. And so you’ve got to come to grips with the fact that God will do what he will do. One lady told me she’d lost a son and just lives up the street from us in Baltic. By the way, we discovered that this is not … We’re part of a large fraternity.

A lot of people have lost kids. You don’t think about it until it happens to you, but she came up to me and she said, “The devil killed your son.”

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay.

 

Marlin Beachy:

I said, “Well, no, a moose was responsible.”

 

Marlin Miller:

I’m sorry to laugh. Was this at the funeral?

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, no.

 

Marlin Miller:

This was later.

 

Marlin Beachy:

This was later. This was probably two years later. God had nothing to do with that because I talked about God’s sovereignty to her and she said, “God had nothing to do with that. The devil did it. ” And I thought about that and I realized that she didn’t have a very good handle on God’s sovereignty. Whether God removed his hand of protection, I don’t know how you want to phrase it, but God allowed that. He could have stopped it. He could have stopped the moose. He could have had Ryan be there a second sooner. A

 

Marlin Miller:

Million things.

 

Marlin Beachy:

A million things. He comes to the end of the road. He could have turned left instead of right. Right.

So he’s turning right. He’s going up a hill. It’s 10 o’clock at night in June, June 18th. The sun is not even setting in the west. It’s still broad daylight. Yeah. He’s looking into the sun. There’s smoke from forest fires. It’s hazy. He can’t see. He left a skid mark that long. He didn’t even see this thing until it was right there. Wow. But you’ve got to come to grips with the fact that when those things happen, God is still good or he’s not God and he allowed it. He wasn’t an innocent bystander watching and looking and saying, “Oh, I wish that wouldn’t have happened.”

 

Marlin Miller:

Oh, I’m surprised.

 

Marlin Beachy:

I’m surprised by that. No. No. If that’s God, then he’s not a God. Yeah. So you’ve got to come to peace with it and it’s hard. I mean, it doesn’t happen overnight.

 

Marlin Miller:

This episode of the Plain Values Podcast is being brought to you by my friends at Kentucky Lumber. Derek and I were talking this morning and he shared a story about how they like to do business. And they like to do business with people that are like them and they like to be treated in a way that they treat their own customers. He told me about a customer of theirs that he had to fire. And this was not going the way that it typically does. And this guy was not being happy with anything that they did and nothing was good enough. And finally Derek said, “You know what? You’ve disrespected my team enough and I think we’re done. And so you can go find your lumber someplace else.” And the attitude and the heart behind the way that Derek sees the world is exactly the way that I see the world and I have a hunch you might as well.

If you call Kentucky Lumber, just know that they might fire you if you treat them poorly. I’m kidding, of course. But they will treat you with the utmost respect because it’s how they want to be treated. And I think there’s a golden rule thing in there somewhere, but if you need anything at all to do with any lumber, wood flooring, wood siding, any type of wood product that has character just baked into it and a great team to match, call my friends @kentuckylumber. You can find them at drywallhaters.com. Let’s talk about the line or the idea that I’ve heard for years is, “Oh, time heals all wounds.”

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh, no. Time heals nothing.

 

Marlin Miller:

I don’t understand.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No. God heals it. God heals it in time, but it never goes away. The pain of that never goes away.

 

Marlin Miller:

Is it simply … I know that you know me well enough to know that I’m not trying to make light of this, but is it that this thin layer of a cover grows and it’s maybe not as easily fresh? Or I’m not even sure if that makes any sense, but does it kind of cover over a little bit so that it takes a little bit more to get

 

Marlin Beachy:

To that raw? Yes, it does. But even sometimes … Well, we were just in Alaska last month. Is this still October? Yeah, September. Yeah, the

 

Marlin Miller:

Last day of October. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

September, we were there. We drive past the place where he died all the time and there’s cross there, but it’s like ripping the scab open again.

 

Marlin Miller:

And it just goes all …

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Although

We found that … Well, at first you’re in shock. I mean, you’re just in shock. It’s like a physical wound where you’re in shock. It’s an emotional wound where you’re in shock. And once the shock wears off, the pain sets in, and it’s just painful. But it passes. It does pass. We had … Sorry about that. We had a friend in Anchorage at my sister and brother-in-law where he’s a pastor and he was, he retired now. But Alaska Native woman, sweet, sweet lady, sweet spirit, just loved the Lord. And her son was drunk one night, crossing a busy, busy street and was hit by a car and killed.

 

Marlin Miller:

He was walking?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah, he was walking. Drunk. Man. And she told me, she told Sharon and I, she said, “The first four years are the hardest.” I went, “Four years.” Yeah. She said, “Four

 

Marlin Miller:

Years.” This was before Ryan’s passing?

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, this was after Ryan died. And she heard about Ryan and she kind of took … And we found a lot of people that had been through this where they’ve lost a child were by far the people that could help us the best. And she told us a story about her son and she said, “The first four years are the hardest.” She said, “After that, it’ll start to heal.” Wow. And I went, “Wow. I didn’t need to hear that from you. “

 

Marlin Miller:

Right. Right.

 

Marlin Beachy:

But she was right. Wow. She was right.

 

Marlin Miller:

There’s this dichotomy, I think, of a truth that he allows us to go through things so that we can help other folks going through the same thing. Lisa and I have gone through some things with not being able to have kids and having a miscarriage and things like that. And it feels really cheap to say that to you because having a miscarriage at 12 weeks or whatever it was is an entirely different thing than having your adult son taken.

 

Marlin Beachy:

But it’s a loss.

 

Marlin Miller:

It is. But there’s something beautiful in the middle of that where you … There’s something, Marlon, when people, when you know, when you know that someone gets it and someone understands at least a degree of what you’re in the middle of, it means everything to be able to sit and talk to that guy or that couple or that lady, so much more than someone who says, “I know what you’re going through.” And in the back of your mind, you think-

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, you don’t. I’m sorry.

 

Marlin Miller:

You have no idea.

 

Marlin Beachy:

I spoke at a little church in Alaska. Ryan died in June. We were back and forth a lot, but he was running … He was commercial fishing and worked construction work way out in the enter land of Alaska. And so our house was kind of his home base. He had an apartment in Anchorage, but he didn’t want to pay for an apartment that he never used. So I said, “Well, just stay at the house when you’re around.” So he did. So we had to, after his death, we had to take care of a lot of things and get rid of his things and take care of his estate. And it was, I don’t know how many trips back and forth, but one of the trips I was asked to speak at a little church, not where I was pastor, but another one. And I talked about Ryan’s death and processing, all that, working through it.

And this guy came up to me and he spoke the truth. Literally, he spoke to … I figured out since that it was a truth, but it was not the right time. And he said, “It looks like God chose to take your son. You need to just get over it and get on with life.” And I went-

 

Marlin Miller:

Please tell me he didn’t say it like that.

 

Marlin Beachy:

He did. He did. He did. Just like that. No kidding, Martin.

 

Marlin Miller:

In a way, almost a heartless thing

 

Marlin Beachy:

Of, “Hey, get

 

Marlin Miller:

Over it. “

 

Marlin Beachy:

It came across very heartless. Oh my

 

Marlin Miller:

Goodness.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Just matter of fact, God chose to take your son, get over it, and get on with life. And I wanted to hit him, but I didn’t, and I was gracious to him. Probably lied. I said, “Well, thank you for … ” I don’t remember what I said. Wow. And you hear people say insensitive things, or people saying, “Well, God causes all things to work together for good for those who love the Lord.” Ryan loved the Lord. He’s with the Lord. We don’t have any doubt, and we do too. So God’s working it for you.

 

Marlin Miller:

Sorry.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, no.

 

Marlin Miller:

In that moment, that is the last thing you want to hear. No,

 

Marlin Beachy:

You don’t want to hear that. You want to weep with those who weep. And people that had gone through this in the past, losing a child, they never said a word. They knew.

 

Marlin Miller:

There’s nothing to say.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No.

 

Marlin Miller:

There’s nothing to say.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, there’s nothing to say. And I appreciated the people that were there at the beginning, even before we left that day to go to Alaska, people popped in and we appreciated it, but the people that helped the most were people that just listen and weep. Weep were those who weep.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah. So I have two questions. I think it’s in … Is it the Song of Solomon? Or no, I’m sorry, not the Song of Solomon. Ecclesiastes. Ecclesiastes. You know where I’m going to go.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, I don’t.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Can’t read your mind.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay. Sorry. I assume far too many things. In Ecclesiastes, he says, “It is better to be in a house of mourning than…”

 

Marlin Beachy:

A house of feasting, but death is a destiny of every man. I quote that verse every time I do a funeral. I just did one a couple of weeks ago and I got a call yesterday from someone that said, “My aunt is dying and we’d like you to do the service.” So I’m going to do another one here in the next couple of weeks, but I always quote that. It’s better to go to a wake than a party.

 

Marlin Miller:

Marlon, so this ties right into my second question. I guess I didn’t even ask the first one. I know that it’s in the Bible and I know that it’s true, but are there times that you, having walked that insanely deep road, just want to say, “You know what? I’m done with funerals for a while.”

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Can I just go to a party for a while?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Yeah. I just did a funeral for a good friend that found out he had cancer and a month later he was gone.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. I mean, it’s hard.

 

Marlin Miller:

And it just doesn’t end.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, no. But remind yourself, every time you drive past the cemetery, they had their time. We have ours. We make the most of it, live for God’s glory, share the gospel with people, because we’re going to be there.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yep. So that is a perfect segue into what … Into the question that I wrote last night, thinking and praying through this time.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

And I should have looked it up. I should have had the verse and the whole thing. I’m sorry I didn’t. I don’t know where it says it, but I think it’s a minor prophet that says, or I think he’s quoting where God said, “Everything I do, everything that happens in the world is for the glory of my name.” And let me just read what I wrote because I think it captures it better than I can say and then I’m going to butcher it and then I’ll just read it. “Is his glory and the glory of his name worthy enough to justify all the pain in the world, all the real injustices, kids abandoned, forgotten, tied to bedposts, dying. “I just had an email from friends of ours who are in Ukraine over in Kyiv, working with young men who are totally stuck in these institutions and orphanages and they … Kim wrote an email asking like a one last ditch effort to basically try to find a family for these two guys, these two boys that are slowly dying.

And she literally said in the email, Marlon,” The one is tied to the bedposts. He can’t do anything. He’s literally dying alone.

 

Marlin Beachy:

“Wow.

 

Marlin Miller:

“My mind doesn’t know what to do with that. I don’t know what to do with that.

 

Marlin Beachy:

” And so you’re asking what redeeming value is there in that? Does that somehow glorify God?

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah. Is it worth it? And I know it is up here, but then you see the reality and the depth of the pain and it makes you wonder.

 

Marlin Beachy:

So the question, I guess a response question would be, how much of what … I mean, obviously God allows this, whether he ordains it or not. I mean, I wrestled with that with Ryan’s death. Did God ordain that or did he allow it or did he like he did in Job, just take his hands away and maybe my neighbor was right, that Satan had a right somehow to take the life of Job’s children. Maybe that’s what she’s referring to. I don’t know, but I’m going to lose my track, I thought. But we have to enter into our thinking also the fall and depravity and sin. And so then you get into deeper questions like, why didn’t God start all over with Adam and Eve, just wipe him out and start over again? Is God the one that is not the author of sin, obviously, but did he allow it?

And then knowing all this, the kid died to the bedpost, all this was going to come. He knew all that would happen because he’s omniscient. So obviously he’s up to something way more than we know. I’ve got to believe that. I’ve got to believe that with Ryan. I mean, just in that instance, I’ve got to believe it and I’ve got to believe it for all the wrongs and evil in the world and the sad things and the hard things and

It’s broken.

 

Marlin Miller:

When God said to Adam and Eve, “You’ll surely die, if you eat the fruit, you’re

 

Marlin Beachy:

Going to

 

Marlin Miller:

Die,” the degree of death that came from that is almost unimaginable and the far reaches or the … I’ll say it like this, there’s not a corner in the world that has not been dramatically wrecked because of sin and the fall.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Yeah. But yet the reformed theologian Kuiper said that God looks over the universe and he says, “Every inch of this is mine, every inch is mine.” So you’ve got to reconcile those two things you’ve got … And it’s wrong to think of … I think it’s a terrible view to think that God and Satan are competing and one has the upper hand for a little bit and then the other one … No.

 

Marlin Miller:

That puts them on the same

 

Marlin Beachy:

Place. No, no, no. It’s not even close. No. Satan’s on a leash. I believe that with all my heart. And God allows all of this for purposes we don’t know.

 

Marlin Miller:

And in a way, well, not in a way, the ultimate goal it seems, I think, is because of his love for us, he allowed that to happen, and then he had the answer in Christ.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes, he did. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Take it on skin.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Yeah. And you got to remember- It’s

 

Marlin Miller:

Unbelievable. That is just unbelievable that he would love us that much to give his own son, himself.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes.

 

Marlin Miller:

Sorry to cut you off.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, no, no, no. I lost my train of thought.

 

Marlin Miller:

Lisa and I, there are so many times lately where because of our own family, we have a lot of friends who are fostering, who have adopted kids out of really hard places.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

And when you look at what trauma does to a little baby-

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh, yeah. Oh, I’ve seen it. It’s

 

Marlin Miller:

Unbelievable. Yeah, I’ve seen it. It is unbelievable. Our neighbors right now have a 12 month old, little child. They took placement, this foster situation at midnight, one in the morning, just a couple nights ago, because the little baby has a fractured skull. And it blows my mind.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Wow.

 

Marlin Miller:

It blows my mind. And that’s just one little tiny thing that in the big scheme of things is he’s going to be okay, but the trauma of that the other night will live with him forever. It will never leave. And there’s just so many things like that that I wrestle with. And it’s not that I don’t trust God’s love. It’s not that I don’t trust sovereignty. I’ve had to wrestle with sovereignty. In fact, we’ve talked about this for years because this whole can of worms with God’s sovereignty and then our own free will and how that plays together-

 

Marlin Beachy:

Why don’t you and I resolve this this morning?

 

Marlin Miller:

I might be here a while.

 

Marlin Beachy:

But what we better remember in all this is that Jesus is going to rule and reign and make all things new. We’re going to have a new heaven and a new earth. He’s going to bind Satan and Satan’s defeated already. He’s going to bind him and cast him and God’s going to be glorified in all of it. And I don’t know how. I mean, you’re quite your question. That’s a tough question. And I can’t say that … I don’t think we can say that somehow God is glorified by the evil, but I think in the way that he’s going to deal with it, ultimately he’s going to be glorified.

 

Marlin Miller:

And he uses it.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes. Somehow. Absolutely. He uses it. He

 

Marlin Miller:

Does.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Unbelievable.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

We’ve been publishing plain values for almost 13 years now. And about a year ago, the team and I decided to put together a compendium, a best of, if you will, of our favorite stories, the most impactful stories of all those years. And invited is what we built out of those conversations. It is 194 and four pages, and it is absolutely a thing of beauty. We do a monthly gathering here where we just simply open our doors. It’s called Porch Time. And the story of how Porchtime came to be and how our family was invited into that and how we are inviting you and every Tom, Dick, and Harry, anybody who wants to come can come and hang out at Porch Time here at the office in Weinsburg. So it was such a natural fit to use the home of the founder of Porch Time and to call it invited.

You can find it on plainvalues.com on the shop page, and you can now consider yourself invited. What are you reading lately? We’re going to change this.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Let’s see. I read two books in the last couple months, Ambrose: Undaunted Courage.

 

Marlin Miller:

Really?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Lewis and Clark.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah, I have it. Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Have you read it?

 

Marlin Miller:

I’ve skimmed it.

 

Marlin Beachy:

It’s not read all the way through. Great book. It’s a little wordy, but my, what a great story. That’s a good book I just read, and the other one I just read is Osginness. Our civilizational moment. Great book.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Great book. He talks about where we are in the West, Western Europe, the US, Canada. I mean, there’s some terrible things happening. I heard on the news yesterday, in Canada, one out of every 20 deaths now is a physician assisted suicide.

 

Marlin Miller:

Made.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yep.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. And it’s not just 90 year olds with terminal cancer. It’s five year olds that have emotional distress. I mean, it’s insane what they’re doing.

 

Marlin Miller:

So a year ago, I read that the government was looking at underage, excuse me, at extending the application form or the ability to apply to underage kids, under 17 or 18 years old.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

And at the time I read that they had pushed it out time and time and time again and said, “Hey, as of right now, underage is not like you can’t apply.” Are you saying that that has now changed and they are allowing kids under-

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think it was John Stone Street on Colson, the Colson Center I heard. I think that’s where I heard it yesterday. But yeah, in this civilizational moment, Guinness talks about the four big threats to our civilization. I don’t know if I can remember what they are. The first one is the Marxist movement, this Mandami? Is that his name? New York.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

I mean, I can’t fathom that this guy could be elected in America.

 

Marlin Miller:

He’s-

 

Marlin Beachy:

He’s probably going to. Yeah. I mean, the gap is closing, but the gap is closing between him and a very terrible former governor.

 

Marlin Miller:

Really?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Cumio. I mean, they’ve got Cumios. We would turn our noses up at him under normal circumstances, but now everybody’s cheering for him. Wow. So the Red Movement, he calls it the Marxist movement. He talks a lot about the transgender movement, the destruction of the nuclear family and how … Well, we don’t realize how important … Well, we do realize how important the family is to civilization and it’s a foundational element of-

 

Marlin Miller:

Mom, dad, children.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. It’s a

 

Marlin Miller:

Picture of the Trinity.

 

Marlin Beachy:

And the gay movement, LGBTQ+ gender transgenderism is a massive threat. And it’s amazing how the West is just … Oh, yeah. Drinking

 

Marlin Miller:

The Kool-Aid.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah, drinking the Kool-Aid. Islam, radical Islam is a huge threat. And then the fourth thing, I’m probably not saying this one right, but he talks about the oligarchy, these powerful, powerful, powerful people, international circles that … And then these guys that have so much power through social media and what a threat they are. And he says, “Will the West survive?” And he says, “Not unless the church revives.” Wow. “Unless there’s massive revival in our churches.”

 

Marlin Miller:

That kind of points to what Eric Metaxas has been talking about a lot. He’s been equating the church in America to pre-World War II church

 

Marlin Beachy:

In Germany.

 

Marlin Miller:

And I think as much, which by the way, I feel I have to say this, I don’t understand how everybody, it seems like everybody throws around the Hitler term.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

They throw

 

Marlin Beachy:

Around like it’s nothing. No, they have no clue.

 

Marlin Miller:

To actually make that call?

 

Marlin Beachy:

It’s … Well, Marlin, the very people that are doing it are the antisemitics kill the Jews.

 

Marlin Miller:

Isn’t that ironic?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh, it’s more than irony. Yeah, it is ironic and they’re for totalitarian government and they don’t like our form of government. And so the people calling screaming Hitler are the Nazis.

 

Marlin Miller:

It is amazing that they don’t see it.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, they don’t.

 

Marlin Miller:

That they don’t see it.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, they don’t. I think that speaks to our educational system, not just high school, but secondary education especially. Our universities are just chalk Stock full of …

 

Marlin Miller:

It’s a brainwashing thing.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Not to forget about the fact that from a spiritual standpoint, it’s really hard to see truth if you’re not alive spiritually.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes. Amen.

 

Marlin Miller:

And so what do we expect? In a way, what do we expect? So that’s an amazing thing.

 

Marlin Beachy:

So in the meantime, we long for Jesus to come, don’t we?

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah, we do.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah, we do. We just do. I’ve had to come to grips with the fact that the pain from losing Ryan won’t be over, ever, not until Jesus comes.

 

Marlin Miller:

How do people that don’t have real hope actually do it? How do they actually survive those hard things?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Well, I think they look for substitutes, whether it’s shopping or social media or drugs, alcohol, anything that dead in the pain because it’s very painful. Those things are incredibly painful. And so if you have a headache, what do you do? You take aspirin. Yeah. If you have this emotional ache and pain, what do you do? Well, you look for some aspirin of some kind. Of some sort. Some sort.

 

Marlin Miller:

Wow.

 

Marlin Beachy:

But you’ve got to just go to the Lord. And not just one time. I mean, you got to keep going back. Lord, give me peace in this. Help me to … I mean, I think I cried every day for a year. I mean, not bawling, but just shedding through- At some

 

Marlin Miller:

Point

 

Marlin Beachy:

Through the

 

Marlin Miller:

Day.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Wow.

 

Marlin Beachy:

There’s a guy up here between here and Worcester that owns a welding shop. He lost a son. And he didn’t tell me this, but somebody else that knows him well told me. He said, “This guy is an Amish guy.” And he said, “I was always glad first year or two after my son died that I was welding because I could just be weeping and I had my hood down and nobody could see that I was weeping.” But yeah, people turned all kinds of things, but my what a … And just because we say, “Well, we turn to Christ and we trust him doesn’t mean it makes it easy.”

 

Marlin Miller:

It doesn’t take the pain away.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, it doesn’t take the pain away. It gives us hope beyond the pain.

 

Marlin Miller:

I think a lot of people misquote that whole thing of, “Death where is your stain?”

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh, they do.

 

Marlin Miller:

They totally miss

 

Marlin Beachy:

The point. They totally miss it because the text says, “When the perishable puts on the imperishable, then the saying will be true. Oh death, where is your victory? Oh grave, where’s your sting?”

 

Marlin Miller:

Not now.

 

Marlin Beachy:

No, no, no, not … I mean, yes, we know Jesus conquered death and we believe that and he did. And it does, when we have that hope, it does take some of the sting away. We don’t grieve, Paul says in Thessalonians like the rest of men who have no hope. We do have hope, but we still grieve. Death is still hard. It still stings. And the when then has not happened yet because the perishable hasn’t put on the imperishable yet, will someday, but not yet.

 

Marlin Miller:

It’s 14 years now that dad is gone.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Wow.

 

Marlin Miller:

And Ryan would be 11, right? Or 12.

 

Marlin Beachy:

12.

 

Marlin Miller:

12 years.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

The older I get and the longer that that is that he’s gone. And by the way, I am assuming that it’s the exact same thing for you with Ryan that it is for me with my dad, where there are certain days that it feels like it’s been a hundred years since

 

Marlin Beachy:

I’ve

 

Marlin Miller:

Talked to him. And then there’s other times that I feel like, “Well, it was just last week.”

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

And it

 

Marlin Beachy:

Just

 

Marlin Miller:

Seems to change, but heaven gets closer the older I get. And that feels like a dumb thing to say, but I so look forward to obviously seeing Jesus and giving him the biggest hug of all time and bowing. So many people are like, “Oh, I give him a hug and invite him in. ” No, let’s remember who we’re talking about.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Remember that old gospel, Southern gospel song. I’m on my way to glory land. I can’t wait to shake God’s hand.

 

Marlin Miller:

Stop it. Theologically, that doesn’t entirely-

 

Marlin Beachy:

Stop it right now. Oh my goodness. You’re not talking about the God of the Bible.

 

Marlin Miller:

Oh my goodness.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh. You’re

 

Marlin Miller:

Going to shake God’s hand. Wow.That’s gutsy. Just say that.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Something else with an ass stupid. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah. But there’s something really, really exciting to know that we are going to see him again.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

They’re not lost forever. No.

 

Marlin Beachy:

We’re

 

Marlin Miller:

Not lost. We’re not separated

 

Marlin Beachy:

Forever. You know what I think about more and more now? There’s almost more people that I know and love on that side than on this side. Wow. I mean, there’s a lot of people I know and love in this life, but boy, I can think back through the years, 25 years as a pastor in Alaska, 10 here, 35 years in ministry. I’ve done, I don’t know how many funerals, loved ones, and the people that I’ve known that have died and it’s like, wow. I mean, we’re going to join them.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Beachy:

We will.

 

Marlin Miller:

I can’t wait. I just can’t wait. Last question.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Yes. How

 

Marlin Miller:

Can we pray for you?

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh, good question. I felt like the last year and a half, two years, we’ve kind of come out of Ryan’s death and recovered as much as we’re going to in this life. And we’re just … I don’t know why. I have this sense that we’re kind of coasting. I mean, I’m still involved in a little church speaking almost every week. I’ve got a part-time job, but life is easy.

 

Marlin Miller:

You’re not the type to retire, are you?

 

Marlin Beachy:

No. No. Retirement and I don’t get along. And so I just wonder what God has next for us. Maybe there’s some short-term work somewhere or just met with Brother Ebby. Oh, no kidding. Serving. He was at the house last week.

 

Marlin Miller:

Oh, man.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Great, great, great time. What a great guy.

 

Marlin Miller:

I love that guy.

 

Marlin Beachy:

I do too. Yeah. So I may go back to India. I don’t know what God has in store for us, but I feel like this kind of coasting, maybe not in a bad way, but I’ve always had a vision and a dream of what I want to accomplish next. And I don’t have that right now. I don’t want to just goes to the end. Right. So that’s how you can pray.

 

Marlin Miller:

Well, we will. Yeah. Arnold,

 

Marlin Beachy:

Thank

 

Marlin Miller:

You.

 

Marlin Beachy:

Oh, my pleasure. Thank you so much. I enjoyed this immensely. Thank you.