The Plain Values Podcast EP #30 – Zach & Katie Miller: From Brokenness to Building Men (and a Homestead)

Zach Miller:

I can choose to be a man who walks with the Lord and lets him redeem this and walk in life, or I can be a bitter old man. I don’t want to be a bitter old man. A real man provides for and protects others spiritually, emotionally, and physically.

 

Katie Miller:

A pilot wants to come be with some Amish people.

 

Marlin Miller:

I can imagine that it’s a bit of a … Has there been any friction? I just had a great conversation with my friends, Zach and Katie Miller. Katie grew up Amish in Northern Indiana, and Zach was an Air Force pilot and a trainer and lost his wife a few years ago. And

They are today running the Arrow School for Men. It’s a fantastic school in the middle of Colorado that helps these young guys learn how to be men. There’s all kinds of wonderful nuggets in this episode. Meet my friends, Zach and Katie Miller. This podcast is sponsored by my friends at Azure Standard. A while back, I had a chance to sit down with the founder, David Stelzer, right here at the table. And we had a great conversation. I love the Azure story. They started out as farmers back in the ’70s and I think in 1987, they began a nationwide food distribution company. And guys, they are non- GMO organic. They do it right. They do it so well. And you can get a truck to drop food right in your town. Check them out at Azurestandard.com and tell them Marlin and Plain Values sent you. Zach and Katie, thanks a ton for being here.

We met in Idaho just a few months ago, right?

 

Katie Miller:

Yep.

 

Marlin Miller:

In Coeur d’Alene at the Modern Homesteading Conference. Yeah. And can you tell me how, because I remember seeing you guys walk, I think with Sean and Beth Doherty.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Right?

 

Katie Miller:

You

 

Marlin Miller:

Walked towards our booth and then somehow we connected and I think we talked for an hour. Yeah.

 

Katie Miller:

At least.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah. How did you guys hear of Plain Values? How did that whole thing come about?

 

Katie Miller:

Well, I had known about Plain Values for a while. My parents get the magazine and I just seen advertisements on Instagram and stuff like that. And I think we had walked over to look at all the books that were in that area. And then he was wanting to look …

 

Zach Miller:

I was trying to buy the magazine.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah.

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah. So I grew up in a family of artists. My dad’s a graphic designer, still actively does that. And I just looked at him like, “This is cool. I like the photos. I wanted…” So basically I was trying to buy your magazine and no one would talk to me. There were people there- Not in a bad way.

And I’m just kind of looking around and everything. And then you walk up and you say, “That’s my magazine.” And I’m like … And I literally was going to ask you, can I buy it? But then you were saying, “Hey, let me tell you about. ” And so that’s when just started engaging conversation. I think we found commonality with your children and then my youngest brother, Arthur, who’s down syndrome. So that was our first point of connection of just, hey, we kind of … And then we just started talking about story and where we’ve been. But we showed up at the homesteading festival expecting that something was going to happen. We were going to run into someone, we make some connection, some contact. And so I just felt like God did it in that way. I was just trying to buy your magazine, but I still haven’t been able to buy your magazine yet.

 

Katie Miller:

I think we started talking and then …

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

That’s so good.

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Well, let’s jump into your past. You were born in Missouri.

 

Zach Miller:

No, I actually was born in Washington State. Basically in Spokane, Washington, my dad at the time was an associate pastor with Assemblies of God in the Palouse country. And he had just finished up school at WSU, but my dad hadn’t gone to seminary yet. He’d gone to Bible college some. So he’d been an associate pastor for about a year, two or three, and then finally, “Hey, I need to go to seminary.” So we moved down to Springfield, Missouri when I was like a year and a half. And I grew up in Springfield till I was about 12. And then we moved back to Washington where his folks in Kennewick Pasco, Richlands called the Tri-Cities area. And we moved back there because his folks were getting up there. His dad had a stroke and all his brothers and scissors, he’s the oldest of six. They all lived there.

And so like, let’s go back there. So then I did middle school and high school in Washington State.

 

Marlin Miller:

So how did you join the military?

 

Zach Miller:

So when I was eight, we were homeschooled growing up and my mom, it was like part of our homeschool was every week to go to the library. So when I was eight, went to the library and my favorite section was the planes, trains, and automobile section, like probably most boys. And one day I got this book about the Thunderbirds and I somehow convinced my parents at age eight to take me to the Air Force recruiter and I said, “Hey, how do I fly these planes?” And he said, “Well, you got to go to the Air Force Academy.” So I’m like, as an eight year old, I said, “Okay.” You were

 

Marlin Miller:

Eight years old.

 

Zach Miller:

When I decided, yeah. And it was just like that was what I was going to do. And so literally for the next 10 years, I worked to figure out basically all the steps. They really are looking for a well rounded. So working on the academics and taking all those classes, you wouldn’t want to take science and engineering. Not because I loved them, because that was the means to do what I really wanted to do. And then eventually by the end, over those 10 years, I got to really kind of core figured out what I really wanted to do. And it actually came because I actually initially didn’t get in the Air Force academy. I actually got a letter of rejection from them to be in the class of 2004. And they said, “Hey, I’m not going to pick you this year, but the Aiden Naval Academy had picked me up.” And it was actually this really big crisis of faith/distilling down who am I really because really what I … I accepted to go to the Naval Academy and my best friend was going there as well.

I’m like, “Well, I guess we’re supposed to go there.” But in the whole process, I realized I really wanted three things. I wanted to love God, lead men and women, including my family, and I want to fly airplanes.That was literally my life was those three things. And I realized I could do that in the Navy or the Marine Corps, which the Naval Academy. And then it was so interesting. And this is one of those things when you finally surrender that area of your life to God, then not always, but in sometimes he gives you … So it was crazy. So I accepted, I’m even on the class of 2004 Naval Academy shirt. My best friend went there. So he gave me a copy of the shirt, even though I didn’t go there, but my name’s on that shirt. And it was literally a month before in processing.

So like June 1st, in process on the 30th of June, I got a call from my brother and I was out of town and he said, “Hey, the Air Force Academy just called and they want you to go. ” And so it was like almost that thing I surrendered and said, “Okay, well, I trust you, God. The core things that I feel like you’ve put in my heart to be of loving you and leading men and women, including my family, and then flying airplanes, I can do it somewhere else.” And then God’s like, “Okay, let’s bring you back.” So I did join the class of the 2004 at the United States Air Force Academy.

 

Marlin Miller:

How did your parents instill that kind of faith and trust into an eight and 10 and 12 year old little guy? And by the way, how many siblings do you have?

 

Zach Miller:

So I’m the second of five.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay.

 

Zach Miller:

So I’ve got an older brother who’s a judge, then myself, and then my next brother, he’s been a tech writer, now he’s a programmer. And then my sister has been in all sorts of different journalistic and helping run companies. And she’s doing Bitcoin lobbying now in DC. And then my youngest brother has down syndrome. So there’s five of us. But I would say like, I think one of the things or part of my story is both the concept of persistence, but also trying to get to the heart of something, of like chewing on something or thinking about something. So like part of my story, like persistence is like, I didn’t learn to read until I was eight, but my mom, we’re homeschooled, she just kept trying, reading curriculum and phonics curriculum over and over and over. And then when I turned eight, I went from no reading level to fifth grade, literally that year.

 

Marlin Miller:

Wow.

 

Zach Miller:

And I think that was part of it was just like, you don’t give up. And that’s the same thing I would say with my dad. He’s an entrepreneur and everything. And my dad can find a legit legal way to overcome an obstacle, which I love. He’s nothing unethical. A lot of people would like circumvent it in an unethical way. My dad will find a way to ethically overcome. And so I think that’s the similar thing too of like, of the Naval Academy was going to work. It wasn’t what I’d always wanted to do, but it was going to work. And so it’s like, and I think just between those two things, I think my mom really taught me the concept of perseverance. She didn’t give up on me. She was patient with me. She just said, “We’re going to keep working. We’re going to keep working and keep working.” And then when it happened, my brain, I’m a lefty, I’m creative, my brain goes many different directions.

And so I think it was her helping me learn how to order it. And then once I did, I was able to unlock it and then I would think my dad can assimilate the persistence. So I would say that’s probably one of the core, I guess character traits or just the character that they developed in me over the years and they didn’t give up on things. They kept going. And just even like right now, I mean, my parents have been parenting because Arthur still lives at home. They’ve been parenting for 46 years and they’re still parenting. And like my dad is 76 and like he can still wrestle my brother and Arthur is strong and my dad can still … So it encourages me to like, you don’t just kind of check out on life. You literally just keep grabbing life by the horns, you just keep going.

So I think that’s helped a lot.

 

Marlin Miller:

So you join the Air Force Academy

 

Zach Miller:

At 18.

 

Marlin Miller:

And that is, is that a two year program?

 

Zach Miller:

No, it’s a four year.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay.

 

Zach Miller:

So basically you start basic training that summer and so you do like five or six weeks, I think it’s five weeks of basic training at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colorado. And then from that, you step straight into the academic year and then especially your, it’s called your four degree year or your freshman year, but we call it a four degree year, is basically like doing bootcamp and a full, full course load of like an MIT type at the same time. And so learning how to balance your time, balance your sleep, you have to stay well rounded. They basically recruit you to be well rounded. You need to be in good shape. You need to be mentally, physically, emotionally, all those different things, and we’re going to push you, we’re going to challenge you like far harder than … I just dropped my oldest daughter off at college and it was like a light bulb went on of like, “I did not go to college.” I got off the bus and they yelled at me and I dropped my daughter off at her dorm and the RAs are helping unpack her bags and put them in her room.

And I’m like, “Oh, okay. Yeah. I did not go to college. I went to a military institution, but it was good. It definitely challenged me and forced me and pushed me beyond, especially freshman year. Freshman year is very, very grueling physically. The amount of pushups, the amount of lunges, literally like the two weeks … Actually, we came back from Thanksgiving break, did finals, and literally we could not walk in our own dorm hallways. We had to lunge. So literally, those two, two and a half weeks, I probably did somewhere between two to 4,000 lunches to get to my room, to go to the bathroom while we’re doing finals and everything. And then we did something similar before we went through what was called recognition. But all that, there is something too about the concept of something being tough. And I really think that that is … God used that for later on life of preparing just of I’ve gone through some really, really, really tough things at multiple stages in my life and that sets a new benchmark or a new standard to help me be able in the next phase.

And I can kind of look back, okay, thank you for preparing me in that way. And then it’s basically the Air Force Academy is like pretty much like an Ivy League, academic, very rigorous. Everyone, even though I have a political science degree, I’ve taken thermodynamics, I’ve taken aeronautical engineering, I’ve taken an astronautical, I’ve taken mechanical, I’ve taken electrical, and I’ve taken philosophy and all these things. So it says, you basically have two and a half years of core curriculum that every person has to take at the academy so that you can speak in every language and I can talk to a computer science. I’ve taken computer science and I can talk to a computer and I generally know enough that I can function in that language and then you’re doing all your military training at the same time.

 

Marlin Miller:

Is all of that training with the stated goal of we are here to train you how to fly a jet?

 

Zach Miller:

No, not explicitly. It’s really more of, we’re going to develop you as an officer first. And so basically as an officer, you need the ability to operate in a high pressure environment, make decisions, and have enough of a background, just like you have all these books around here. I generally know who Those Cities was. I generally know why we went from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. I generally know what did we learn in the World War II air war and those things, but I also understand mechanical and thermodynamics. It’s like, I’m going to give you this foundation so you’re fluent in many different languages because we don’t quite know what you’re going to have to encounter and cooling once you go to pilot training. So we’re just going to give you this really deep, rich soil or foundation, either knowledge you want, and then to a degree that gets you ready.

So like I was blessed … It’s a crazy story. So my … I really wanted to be at Gladder IP when I was my freshman year. And freshman year, your four degree year, you don’t get to fly really. You more just like do your military training and work in academics. But the summer between your freshman and sophomore, your fourth degree, your three degree year, you either get to do jump or soaring the intro course. And I really wanted to do soaring because I want to be a soaring IP because the soaring IPs, they were the most prepared, they would fly the gliders and after three years of flying the gliders, their sophomore, junior, senior year, then they would be really ready to go to off the pilot training. So that’s what I wanted to do. Well, my roommate at the time was like, ” Let’s go do jump.

“I’m like, ” I’m scared of jumping on airplanes. “He’s like, ” No, no, no. “And he had always, since he was like a young kid, wanted to be on the parishing team, wanted to go to the Air Force Academy, wanted to be specific on the parishing team. I’m like, ” Okay. “So my friend Josh, he jumped earlier in the summer and then later that summer I did it just because Josh did it and I just gutted it out because Josh did it. And then the crazy thing is he said,” We need to try out for the team. “I’m like, ” Okay. “So we did and by the grace I’ve got, I got picked and Josh didn’t.

 

Marlin Miller:

Oh my goodness.

 

Zach Miller:

Which is a crazy story. And Katie’s actually met Josh. We had our reunion last year, so she met him and his wife Abby and he was a good friend because he still must my friend after that. But I got for the next three years, I got to parachute and be a part of the … Now it’s called the Air Force Parachut Team. It used to be called the United States Air Force Academy Parachute Team, but basically got to jump and everything. So in some ways they prepare you. There are aviation opportunities, but most of it is just, ” Hey, let’s just get you this super strong foundation that you can speak a little bit of all these different languages and you know how to work with people, develop relationships, you understand how the Air Force works, and then we’ll send you off the pilot training post the Air Force Academy.

 

Marlin Miller:

“So when you say a glider IP, just so that I understand, what does IP stand

 

Zach Miller:

For? IP stands for instructor pilot. So basically it’s a teacher, but there’s a reason we don’t call them teachers because flying, it’s actually interesting. We call it pilot training. Once you graduate from the academy or you graduate from reserve officer training at ROTC, you go off that training. When you fly and you teach flying, it’s very one-on-one. So I as an instructor, instructor pilot, am going to fly with a student pilot and I’m going to pass on my experience and basically my limits like a driver’s ed just in a more complicated thing. So the concept of instructor pilot is it’s a lot of one-on-one instruction where you’re briefing with the student, you’re flying with the student and you’re debriefing with the student. And so the cool thing at the academy is you get an opportunity when you’re cadet to be an instructor, even as a 19 year old.

And then I got to be a jump instructor. I actually taught parachuting for the three years that I was there.

And I love the leadership that you learn, which is one of the key aspects of the academy too that happens when you’re working with taking something that’s scary and you’re teaching them to train to trust their training and to trust the equipment or trust the whole process or trust people. There’s pilots flying the plane and then you’ve got another … I as a 20 year old was, we’ll use the term, I’m throwing my classmates out of the plane at 4,500 feet above the ground in Colorado Springs, that type of thing that builds that trust, but because there’s actually a real risk to it, because if we don’t do it right, someone can seriously get harmed or die, like that actually makes it more realistic. And so that’s that term.

 

Marlin Miller:

Did you simply just push through the fear and

 

Zach Miller:

Just

 

Marlin Miller:

Totally toughed it out?

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah, it was completely just of like … It took me about 65 jumps before I was actually not scared of it. And now if I went back and jumped again, I’d be a little bit, but then eventually you get to where it becomes second nature and everything like that. I’ve learned that a lot of life is you literally just hopefully not on something that’s foolish, but on something that you’re like, this will have value in long term just literally gut it out.

 

Marlin Miller:

That’s

 

Zach Miller:

Pretty

 

Marlin Miller:

Funny. So you go to pilot training and then you ended up flying the B-52,

 

Zach Miller:

Right?

 

Marlin Miller:

How did that come about?

 

Zach Miller:

So of course I never wanted to fly B-52. That was not the plane that I wanted to fly. I wanted to fly 16s, right? Like I told you, that was where the Thunderbirds flew at that time. So I went to Shepherd called, it’s called Uronato Joint Jet Pilot Training and Shepherd Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Texas. And then at the beginning I did pretty well. I was like top third of my class. You’re always competing against your classmates. We actually had four Dutch students in my class and 20 Americans and the Dutch spoke better English than the Americans did. It was pretty funny.

But so I did really good my initial training T37s. Then we moved into the T38s and the plane was going so fast and I was a little slow to, we say basically slow to fly the jet or behind the jet. The plane was going faster and the decisions were happening faster than I could get my brain to go. So I struggled and then kind of about halfway through it, I learned how to actually, okay, these are some tools, how to train my brain to think and to gain basically a type of self-control, but it’s a different type and a stressful environment with heat and it’s very dynamic. So I learned how to do that. And I initially was going to go fly at 15Cs. I initially got selected to fly the Eagle and then I went to a follow on course. So I already had my wings.

I went to a course called Introduction of Fighter Fundamentals. And while I was there, I let fear drive too many of my decisions. The reason or my motivation, instead of like, I’m going to learn because that’s a good thing to do and I’m going to grow, I was like, “Oh, just try not to fail.” And this is one of my probably biggest life lessons of like, is way better to aim for what you really want than try not to … I hate prevent defense. And the young men I disciple, I’ve told you a little bit about the men I work with, I always tell them, “Do not play prevent defense on anything in your life. In your marriage, you should be on the offensive. You should be in that pursuit of your wife or with your kids, you should be on that pursuit.” And I think I learned that here because I think I was playing prevent defense.

I was trying just not to fail. And guess what? I failed at IFF, which is a really crazy, probably the first big failure of my life and the crisis of like, I thought I was going to go fly fighters and all of a sudden I’m in this purgatory called Flying Evaluation Board. They’re like, “Ah, what are we going to do? Are you going to … ” There was a chance they would reinstate me and I basically went through a whole legal court case on my flying character. I was a good officer and I hadn’t done anything illegal, but they were like literally at the Shepherd Air Force Base courtroom. They’re like saying, “Okay, does Lieutenant Miller get to continue to be a pilot? Does he get to continue to go to fly fighters or are we going to take his wings away?” Wow. And it was a crazy like five month period that just literally like, “God, what in the world is going on and how do I deal with this and everything?” And then the short version is eventually they decided, hey, he has the ability to, the board, basically three Air Force lieutenant colonels who all had lots of flying experience, they said, “We think this gentleman has the potential to be a pilot.

We just don’t think you should be a fighter pilot anymore.” And so I got reassigned to the B-52 and learned in the crew environment and basically grew up and started to overcome probably the areas where I was weak, like the muscles that I hadn’t really worked well and learned how to not do things out of fear and how to lead a crew. And that was a really cool, flying a very old plane that’s literally going to fly for, at this point, I think another 30 years. By the time they retire, they’ll flow for almost a hundred years. Oh my goodness. So the planes I flew were built in 1960, 1961. And so it was hard. It was not what I wanted to do, but that’s where I ended up and-

 

Marlin Miller:

How old were you when that five month period was going on?

 

Zach Miller:

So that was June of 06, so I was 24. Wow. Yeah. So I would say that was probably the first fire of my life. The academy was tough, but I never really failed. This was like that true, “Hey, you really failed.” And have you ever read John Eldridge when he talks about the question of, “Do you have what it takes?” I literally had a board say, “Nope, you don’t have what it takes.” And I think that’s one of those things that’s really challenged me. I’ve had to fight through and really go back to, “Okay, God, how do you see me? How do you view me? ” And not to take the valuation of the world because what had happened is along the way, something that started to pure when I was eight of being a fighter pilot was just like, “That’s cool.” Eventually became an idol.

Eventually became the thing of like my value is like, I wouldn’t be a man. This is 20 years later now that I’ve really distilled this whole thing. But at that point I thought, “Hey, I wouldn’t really be a man or my joy or my happiness is tied to whether or not I fly that or if I get viewed like that in the eyes of the world.” And God was like, “That’s an idol.” And that’s one of things I would say that’s a central thing in my life that God does not let idols remain. He’s gentle sometimes and sometimes he’s like, “Zach, this is going to destroy you and you’re going to destroy your family.” And so I think that if I had gone down that route with my current heart, I would have worshiped it and destroyed my marriage, destroyed my kids’ lives and stuff like that.

So in his grace, in his mercy, he is constantly trying to work to get those things that are really going to destroy me. He says, “Let’s melt those. Let’s get those out of the way.” And then he’s also a guy that redeems.That’s the thing I would definitely say is another theme that I see of what he’s done with those types of things.

 

Marlin Miller:

At the time, when you’re in the middle of the fire, it doesn’t feel good and you cannot see what he’s doing and it hurts. Boy, that’s an amazing thing to think about how in the middle of that pain, it’s actually a huge mercy. It’s a huge grace. Wow. So now how did you meet your first wife?

 

Zach Miller:

So my first wife, Kaylee, she and I met in between me, graduating from the Air Force Academy and going off the pilot training. So we did this thing, used to call it cash lieutenants, basically now they call it a waiting pilot training. They just try to have, they call it APT, but basically everyone graduates from the Air Force Academy and ROTC and OTS, all these officer commissioning sources, everyone graduates about the same time and yet the system, the pilot production system basically can’t take everyone at the same time. So they gradually start, basically spread us over 12 to 12 months or sometimes even 18 months. So I wasn’t going to start pilot training until January. So they said, “Hey, you graduated from Air Force Academy, you still need to get your private pilot’s license. We’re going to have you do that at the Air Force Academy, even though you’re a lieutenant, and we’re going to have you work one day.” Basically, I have a Monday, Tuesday, or MD, T day.

So one day you’re going to work learning how to fly and the other day you’re going to work. For me, I was going to work at the jump squadron where I had just graduated from. And so I continued to jump and continue to work there. So in that season, for the first time in my life, I actually had some time because I accomplished all my goals, was waiting to go to pilot training. And so I finally was able to dig into my local church and I intentionally didn’t want to do anything with gals because there’s just a distraction. So I joined an all men’s Bible study at my church and they ended up … Through that, we ended up on a camping trip. And on that camping trip, Kaylee wasn’t even supposed to go. She was actually supposed to get set up with another guy at that camping trip.

She didn’t really want to go because the guy was going to be there. I guess last minute he didn’t go and then her roommate basically twisted her arm because Kaylee had just come back from a really intense backpacking trip, like doing real camping and we were doing car camping and that was like a lesser thing. So it was Labor Day weekend 2005 and literally like I’m sitting playing cards with some buds and Kaylee and her friend came up and they’re like, “Hey, does anyone go on a hike?” And I’m like, “I think this would be a good thing to do. ” So I put the cards down and so went on a hike with Kaylee and that’s how we met on a campus trip. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Did you date for a few years or did you get married pretty quickly?

 

Zach Miller:

Probably in between. It was one of those things like we met and then I knew I was going to leave in January for pilot training and I tried to do things fairly systematically like I basically wanted to get to know who she was and get to know who she appeared to be. Was that really who she was? I’m always trying to discern and look into the heart and stuff like that. And so I was able to get to know that fairly quickly that a lot of people that had known her for years were like, “Yeah, this is really who she is. ” And so we started dating in about a month and then it was crazy. As soon as we started dating, within 10 days we both knew that, yep, this is what God has for us and everything. And so it was weird to like, we both had prayed about it.

We’d met with one of my mentors and it just became very clear to both of us. And then I proposed before I left for pilot training in January and then we got married in August of 2005, so basically less than a year. I mean, we met in September and we were married the fall of August, so I guess it was 11 months from meeting to getting married. And so we got married in the middle of pilot training. So I’d started in T37s in Texas and she was still working at Focus on the Family and planning the wedding in Colorado Springs. And then we got married in between. You get a few days off and then she came down for that next part. Wow.

 

Marlin Miller:

So you guys were married for how long?

 

Zach Miller:

Almost 18 years.

 

Marlin Miller:

18 years.

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

And your kids are today how old?

 

Zach Miller:

So they’re 18, 15 and 12. So girl, boy, girl.

 

Marlin Miller:

Now Kaylee ended up passing away from cancer. Is

 

Zach Miller:

That

 

Marlin Miller:

Right?

 

Zach Miller:

Yep.

 

Marlin Miller:

Zach, I don’t even know exactly what to ask. I mean, what can you share about that whole process?

 

Zach Miller:

I think it’s maybe more close to being in a car accident or being in something that all of a sudden just is crazy. There’s been seasons where everything seemed completely smooth and blessed and we’re living the life. And 2014, I really felt led to get out of the active duty. And so we were in the process of starting that whole thing. And so we bought a place out in the country and literally we’re going to start homesteading. We bought the crazy cow we were telling you about this morning, Marianna at the crazy cow. I had chickens. We were just doing life. And then I officially left active duty and was underemployed and everything just like the opposite of a Midas touch. I would try to do something and it just wouldn’t work out and everything. And so I ended up starting at a regional airline where my pay wasn’t even going to pay the mortgage and just, and then I tried to apply for guard reserve jobs and those things didn’t work out and everything just wasn’t working out.

And then I started at this regional airline and let I get the call from Kaylee and she says, “I think something’s going on. ” And then basically we do the tests and then it was just like literally like you just got hit by a truck. I mean, just massive and it shook everything definitely just tore at your heart of like, we went from everything seemed okay maybe in that 2013, 2014, 2015, and then 2016, just like the bottom fell out and you’re just in shock of like, “Hey,” and literally it’s just like, how do you take that next step of … For me, the mantra that I’ve come up with that I try to live by myself is that a man provides, a real man provides for and protects others spiritually, emotionally, physically. So in that case, I didn’t feel like I could protect her and it was very, very powerless of like, “How do I do this?

” And then emotions and it wrestled with her concept of God of is he good and how could this have happened? And we’ve got three young kids. And so it was like all these areas where I just literally was on my knees and then there was like one day I was literally on my face because Kaylee was just in the depths of despair and I literally just remembered the day and I just walked over into our bedroom and just literally laid on the ground on my face and just said, “God, I don’t know what to do. ” And so it was like shock and then just like looking to him because I had no clue what to do.

And then that road wasn’t a quick one, wasn’t an easy one. I feel like we got some repeat prieves along the way for a while she was better and for a season things somewhat seemed more normal. And even when we got back into the reserves or we got into the reserves with the Air Force, then that opened … Employment was good again, healthcare was there and things seemed … We almost had like a little rebirth of life. And then in 2020, when she got diagnosed with stage four, breast cancer, it was even crazier of like trying to like wrestle with and not … And I think I still did. I definitely lived in a lot of denial. This isn’t going to happen. God’s going to heal her. And we prayed for that and everything.

Looking back, I think the main thing I’ve had to work through is I don’t understand it and I still don’t. And I’ve had to acknowledge that’s where I’m at and then at the same time say, “Hey God, okay, I don’t understand. I’m going to lay it down on an altar and give it to you. ” Because if not, it always creates a rift between me and God. And those are kind of the two. I don’t understand it. It’s still crazy. Sometimes I still wake up or I look around and I’m like, “Really? Did that just really just happen?” Yeah, I think it did, but I still can’t, I can’t fully process it. I’ve gone through, really worked through all the grief, but I just like … Proverbs three: five and six where it says, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart.” There’s nothing about the mind in it, right?

It’s like towards your heart of basically, do you believe that God is good?

Lean not on your own understanding. I can’t lean back to that I could figure this out. Well, if I would have done this, or if Kaylee would have done this, or if this would have happened, or this hadn’t, it says, “Lean not on your own understanding.” And it’s the trust with the heart. And that’s probably been the biggest thing of learning to let my heart trust his heart that God is good. And then in this whole process of him truly, all the different places it talks about, I’ll give you a heart of flesh or heart of stone, or Christ came to heal the broken heart in Isaiah 61, all those things, that’s where it’s brought me back to again and again. And literally there was a point just even a few months ago where God was giving me a new, soft, clean heart and literally saying of, “Yes, you’ve gone through all of this, but I’m going to give you my heart, the heart of flesh so that you can actually…” And so I don’t understand it, but I have been able to say, “God, you’ve taken me just kind of like that four degree year that was intense and crazy.

You’ve taken me through these crazy things, these overwhelming things. You’ve been faithful through them and I still believe that you’re good.” And that’s like the thing that … It was crazy the week that Kaylee was passing. We were doing in home hospice and I meet with my young men on Tuesday nights and I was in a daze because I think I’d finally accepted that she was really going to pass. And my dad was there, my parents had come into town and so my dad was helping lead my men’s group because I was just in a daze. And my dad said this amazing thing that just has so resonated and helped give me some direction. But basically he said to my young man, so I’m sitting in the group, but I’m in a daze and my dad’s talking to my other young man and he says, “Zach’s kids are going to lose their mom.

It’s up to Zach whether or not they lose their dad.” And I was like, “That is a calling, that’s a challenge.” And he didn’t say it vindictively, he didn’t say it of like, “You better.” He was just like being honest because I think that’s the point where it’s so easy for you and like going back to the B52, when I ended up in the B52, I was bitter for two and a half years. I was mad at God. “Why did I end up here? This is where I wanted to be and finally I have an amazing mentor that just said, You need to choose to be grateful for what you do have and really learned the discipline of thankfulness. And that really helped me appreciate what I did have and helped me move out of the bitterness. And it was kind of the similar thing in this of like, I can choose to be a man who walks with the Lord and lets him redeem this and walk in life or I can be a bitter old man.

And I was like, ” I don’t want to be a bitter old man. “And yet at the same time, if you ever watch It’s a Wonderful Life or any of these old movies or any shows where you ever see like that 55 year old man that’s a drunk, I understand why. If you don’t turn to the Lord, you’re going to be that. If you don’t let him heal your heart, if you don’t let him give you a new heart, if you don’t let him … If you basically try to understand it or you try to control it or you try to escape from it, like it’s … I don’t know. Have you ever read the book with your kids going on a lion hunt? Going on a lion hunt, I’m going on a lion hunt, I’m going to get a big one. It says you can’t go over it like they get to like a mountain.

You can’t go over it, you can’t go around it, you can’t go underneath it, you have to go through it.

If God hadn’t taught me to go through it, my kids wouldn’t have a dad. They would have lost their mom and their dad. But my dad’s saying that and then just what the Lord has been doing in my own heart, it’s like go through it. Go through the grief and give God the bitterness and give God those different things so that you come to the place where you’re like, ” My heart literally trusts your heart, God, I don’t understand it. I wouldn’t do it the way you did it, but I’m going to keep going after your heart because your heart is good and I think that’s … I would have given up hope unless I believed I would see the goodness of the Lord and landed living. And even this last week, through that same mentor, he was just helping me realize just of like looking at the future and believing that there will be life there, believing that there’ll be light there, that next time that something doesn’t work out or get frustrated looking into the future that there is light and that’s where I want to lead my family and that was the part of me that I think at the end of it … I don’t know if I’m at the end of it.

I don’t think I am. Katie probably wouldn’t sad me even at the end of it, but at this point, I’m still on that endeavor and I don’t want to be that bitter old man. I understand why, and I probably have a less judgment of any guy that’s ever in that place, but I would also say to that man, there is the possibility for new life, even on the side of death.

 

Marlin Miller:

I just talked to a friend of mine who lost his daughter and he said after they buried Pearl, he was bitter and he was basically fighting and raging inside and he said, “Marlon, I wanted to have a shirt made that said, I didn’t intend on turning out this way.” I don’t even know what I don’t know about what that means and what that’s like, but I think I can understand that in the middle of that huge tornado of loss, you’re just simply struggling to hold onto something. Zach, thank you. That is incredible.

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

Wow. Katie, can I jump into your story? You were born in Northern Indiana as a little Amish gal.

 

Katie Miller:

I sure was. Yeah. So tell

 

Marlin Miller:

Us about that.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah. So grew up in Northern Indiana in Napanee and was the youngest of six. Oh man, I don’t know. It was just a normal life, right? I didn’t know any different. But it was, looking back, there was things about growing up Amish that I didn’t like. I didn’t like … Because Napani is a small town that is used to … There are Amish people everywhere and I went to public school, so I didn’t go to the Amish parochial school. I went to public school and there was three different elementary schools and the one I went to, there was only me and another little Amish girl that went to my elementary school. In

 

Marlin Miller:

The entire school?

 

Katie Miller:

In my grade. Sorry. In your class. Okay. In my class, yeah. And then when the three gathered together, in middle school, there was more like 12 of us or so, but everyone knew about the Amish. And so I was accepted. I had friends that weren’t Amish. I went to their sleepovers and their birthday parties and they came to my house and they could not figure out where our lights were. They were like, “How do you turn these on? ” I remember a little girl, she was a Hispanic little girl, she was so funny. She came to our house and she was just looking around and just couldn’t figure out. And my mom turned the light on. We had piped in lights at that time with- With gas. Yeah. And she was just like amazed. Then my mom- A lighter up to the light and it turned on and she was like, “Could not.

” She was like, “What is happening?” So that was all very normal, but when we went on trips or something like that, when we left our little bubble of community, everyone would always stare at us. And I was always so frustrated. I was like, “Why are you staring at me? I’m normal. There’s nothing to stare at.” And so it was things like that, that was the part that I didn’t like when I was out somewhere else because it was just like you got that attention and I didn’t … The attention felt like I didn’t do this to myself, like I’m not necessarily choosing this, so why are you staring at me? But now looking back, I am so thankful for the way that I grew up because I learned so many values and lessons and like just the morals that work ethic, all these things that I wouldn’t have learned or potentially wouldn’t have learned if I wouldn’t have grown up in the community that I did.

 

Marlin Miller:

Did you grow up on a farm?

 

Katie Miller:

No. No, not really. We had horses, obviously, and we grew up horse riding. So I grew up with horses all of my life. My dad was a hog farmer until I was about eight years old, and that’s the extent of it. We had dogs, but no chickens, no cows, like none of those things. And now going into the homesteading world that I’ve wanted for a long time and we’re doing those things now, people hear that I grew up Amish and they’re like, “Oh, you’ve got this under the belt, you’re good.” And I’m like, “Actually, no. I’ve never even had a chicken.” So we just got our chicks for the first … We just got our chicks arrived about three weeks ago. So excited, don’t know what to do with them. So

 

Zach Miller:

I’m actually the expert on the animals because I’ve done a lot of this relatively speaking, but it’s kind of fun. We both

 

Katie Miller:

Enjoy it. So yeah, I didn’t grow up on a farm, but as I’ve gotten older, I’ve stepped back into those heritage things that my grandparents would have done. And so I’ll tease my parents sometimes and say that I’m more Amish than they are.

 

Marlin Miller:

Okay. I love … So I have a question about that because I can identify a little bit with the Amish community here where there are many, many Amish families who are buying their own clothes, they’re not making their clothes. They’re buying all their groceries at the store instead of raising a garden and canning and things like that. And many of them I think are going back. What do you think has, not has happened, but what do you think happened to the Amish community out there to, do I say, allow them to get away from those traditions?

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah, that’s a really great question. And it comes down like factories were more profitable and you made way more money than farming and especially I think out here in Ohio, you guys have more farmland than Napanee where I grew up in. There’s not much farmland left there. It’s mostly houses. And so I think their farms got smaller, they weren’t able to produce as much. As far as I know, the community still and at home, they also have gardens and that sort of thing, but nobody has a farm anymore. Nobody has … And I think it was just the introduction of the factories and how much they were able to make more money and it was easier and then they could come home, have their few horses and that was it. So I think that was probably the transition.

 

Marlin Miller:

Are you the only one of your siblings that have left the

 

Katie Miller:

Amish? No. So there’s six of us, three are Amish and three aren’t. I have a brother who’s German Baptist that lives in Montana, so they have a really cool property out there. And then I have a sister who’s just non-denomination and still lives in Indiana, super close to home. So, yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

So one of the things that totally fascinated me when I met you guys was somewhere along the line, you said that you were in Nashville.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

How did you end up in Nashville?

 

Katie Miller:

Well, so I’d always liked going to Tennessee. That was just, I love the mountains. I love the Smoky Mountains. Eastern Tennessee is where … When I thought about moving to Tennessee, East Tennessee is where I thought about. And I dated a guy that lived in Tennessee and through him, I met his brother’s girlfriends, his brother’s girlfriend and her family and stuff like that. And her mom owned a coffee shop just outside of Nashville. And coffee shops had been something that I had wanted to … Working in a coffee shop had been something that I’d wanted to do for a really long time. I loved just the atmosphere of coffee shops and like what they meant of bringing people together and just that community that gathers to sit and talk and just be present with each other. That’s one of the things that I love about going to coffee shops is just seeing those interactions.

And she owned a coffee shop. And so after we broke up, we stayed in contact and her mom, Anne, would ask me, you know, she’d call me everyone, text me and be like, “Just so you know, I still have a job available.” And I was working a really good job at a factory in Napanee. And by that point I had, in 2020 when I quit, I had worked up to a management position and I was really good at my … Or I was- You were

 

Zach Miller:

Good. You

 

Katie Miller:

Were good. I was good. There was a newbie in the management world, and so I definitely made mistakes and things like that, but it was good. I was good at it, but it was so stressful. The company had just gone from being a small Amish owned factory woodworking shop to a huge multimillion dollar company had just bought it out. And so it had just gone through this transition and they had started introduced second shift and I was in management that nobody … Second shift didn’t know anything about my machines and so I was working some days I work like 18 hours. It was crazy. And I was 24 at the time and I was like, “This is too stressful.” I was like, “I am too stressed out to be this young and not dislike my life and job as much as I do. ” And then around that time, I think it was in November, she texted me again and was like, “Just so you know, there’s a job.” And I was like, “You know what?

If I don’t do it now, I’ll never do it. ” I had bought, I’d owned my own house for two years at that point. I’d moved into town, my parents lived about three miles outside of town and I had just bought a house and I was like, “I’m getting settled here and if I don’t take the opportunity now, I’m never going to leave.” And so I just decided, I was like, “You know what? I’m going to do it and who knows what’ll happen.” And so I moved and I lived in the Nashville area for about five years, worked in … When I left Napanee in the woodworking shop, I had said, I was like, “I’m never doing that again.” Never working in word working again. It was not a passion of mine. Don’t tell

God never. Yeah, don’t tell God never. And I worked at that first coffee shop for about a year and then I was only working part-time and it was during COVID and all of that stuff. And well, I started working at another woodworking shop. Oh, goodness. So yeah, so after a year of working at the coffee shop, I found another job in Tennessee working for a cabinet shop. And so I went back to that until … And I think it’s kind of the same about Zach was saying about having to let go of that dream and just, because I remember sitting in the parking lot of the woodworking shop one day at the cabinet shop, sorry. And I was just like, and I was so upset and just so frustrated that here I was again at this position of like working at this place that I didn’t … I was good at it and like I knew I was a good worker and all these things that I knew I was valued and I was valuable, but it just, it wasn’t what I wanted to do.

And at that point I had been at that shop for about a year as well and they had given me the opportunity to be an assistant manager again and I was like, “God, why is this happening?” I keep getting these positions in places that I don’t want to work at. And I finally like, I had to make a choice about what I was going to do and I got to the point where I was like, “You know what, God, if it’s not going to work out that I work in a coffee shop, then that’s fine. I will just take this position, I will financially be better off.” And about in that same week of getting the job offer for a new position, I got a call about managing a coffee shop in Nashville, in downtown Nashville. Really? So it was within that same week, but I think it took that of me just like saying, “You know what?

If this isn’t what you want me to do, then it’s just not going to be right now.”

 

Marlin Miller:

And to be okay with it?

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. Wow.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah. So how long were you in Nashville until you guys met?

 

Katie Miller:

I was in Nashville. I lived there until this past September, so I lived out there the entire time we were dating pretty much.

 

Zach Miller:

You probably lived in Nashville about, you think about four years? It was about

 

Katie Miller:

Four and a half just-

 

Zach Miller:

Before we met?

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

So can you tell us the story of how you met?

 

Zach Miller:

Should I tell her or do you tell it? I’ll let you tell it.

 

Katie Miller:

Okay. So I was working, it was a coffee shop in East Nashville that I was managing it and had started … It was a startup, brand new, and it sat on the corner and then Caddy Corner from that was this really cool brick building that had been … It was supposed to be an Airbnb hotel, but because of COVID, they had started leasing it out to people during that time. Well, by now, a couple years, two years had gone by and they were going to turn it back into the hotel. Anyway, his sister, unbeknownst to me, had moved in right around the same time that the coffee shop was opening and so-

 

Marlin Miller:

Into that building?

 

Katie Miller:

Into that brick building or … Yeah. So she was living in that brick building that was cat a corner to the coffee shop. And she was one of our first customers and we would talk when she would come in and then she wouldn’t come in for a while because I found out later she was traveling and things like that. But then she’d come back in and we’d talk some more and then over time realized that we had a lot in common and I helped her move. So going back to why I was telling you about the hotel, it turning back into a hotel, she needed to get out of the apartment. And so her lease, they ended her lease and she was packing up and I think she had done something to her back or something like that. And so she was asking for help to pack.

And I’m a pretty good packer. I always say I should own a company that packs for people because I’m very organized in that manner, but I was like, “I’ll go help you. I’ll help you. ” And so I went over that afternoon or next day or something and I helped her pack. And that’s when we really connected was on that moving trip. And over the course of the next few years, we grew closer and closer and then I believe it was in November of what year I always get the years

 

Zach Miller:

From- Yeah, October.

 

Katie Miller:

October.

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah. October, November of 23.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah.

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah, of 23.

 

Katie Miller:

She had invited some women over for dinner and we had been doing this for … We’d done it a few times and then she was like, “Well, I think I’m moving to Colorado.” We were all like, “What? This is random. Why?” And she had said that her brother … I knew that her sister-in-law had passed away when it happened because she came into the coffee shop and was … I could tell she was sad and I was like, “What’s going on? ” And then we talked about it and we talked about how close they had been and how long she had been in her life and all of this. And so I had known about this for way, a long time before I knew Zach. And so she told us that Zach asked her to move out to Colorado to help him with the kids, and so she was going to move.

And over the course of the next few weeks, we were talking about her moving and I told her, I was like, “Well, I would ride with you so you don’t have to go by yourself.” And then on January 1st of 24,

We headed for Colorado. So now Zach can tell his version of the story, I

 

Zach Miller:

Guess. Yeah. So I think my sister had talked about you a few times just in general because she’s kind of the similar, that’s one of our funny things of like, we both didn’t grow up Amish and yet the more that we kind of like, maybe I did and I didn’t know it.

 

Katie Miller:

There was a few times where I asked, I was like, are you sure you weren’t Mennonite at least?

 

Zach Miller:

But we did have. Growing up in Missouri and I just even think about growing up, we had friends that were Mennonite and we lived in … I would have sleepovers at kids’ house that didn’t have electricity. So it wasn’t so different. It’s not as big of leap as I think a lot of people would say. I was like, I think I’m more, we’re probably way more similar than we’re not, but-

 

Marlin Miller:

And you’ve got the perfect last name for

 

Zach Miller:

It. Perfect last name. I know. I know. Even for all your bridesmaids, did you tell this, this is a funny little story.

 

Katie Miller:

Well, you can finish your story

 

Zach Miller:

First. So my sister had told me a little bit just in generally about her Amish friend. Literally that’s, I don’t think she’d even use your name. And then she just said, “Hey, we’re going to be driving out and everything and then we need…” She was transporting, she had a U-Haul and then she was transporting her car and we’re going to store it at a friend’s house, initially the car. And so we drive, it was of course, it was January 2nd, it was the day after. Yeah, at the time.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah.

 

Zach Miller:

And of course there’s snow in Colorado and so we’re driving it up this long driveway and everything. And so I hop in the cab of the you all to drive it up to drop it off. And I guess the cat, my sister’s cat has like spilled stuff everywhere and everything.

 

Katie Miller:

Well, so it was her, myself, and then we had the cat and of course we had a disco ball hanging from the rear viewer. We had a little plan- In the U-Haul. Of course. We were road tripping. We had to make this a home, right? And I had brought little sample bottles of essential oils in my bag because you never know when you need an oil, right?

 

Zach Miller:

Oh no.

 

Katie Miller:

And about 10 minutes before Zach gets in the car to, I don’t know, move the car around the U-Haul around so that they could unload the car, I realized that one of my oils had opened up and so there was a cat that’s in here. We’ve got two days of things busting out of the seams in the front of the U-Haul. The oils have exploded and it smells like a mirage of different smells. And then the door opens and he sits in and I’m like, “Oh, this is so embarrassing. What is happening right now?” Yeah.

 

Zach Miller:

And then she stayed for a couple days to help my sister old house had like a basement apartment that my sister moved into. So Katie helped her move in, get settled and then … So that’s kind of the first time we met and then really were probably first point of connection was really more on the cruise because my family had chosen to do this once in a lifetime cruise in Hawaii and my son just wasn’t in a place to want to go. And so I was just kind of praying about it. I was like, “I’m going to stay home with him.” And then God gave me the idea like, “We’ll see if he wants to go hang out with his friend in Florida, his best friend from when we were down in Texas, he was in Florida.” And I was like, “Yeah, let’s ask him.” So I asked him and he said, “Yeah, I want to go see my friend.” And so we had a spot.

And so my sister was like, “Can Katie come?” Because we already paid for the spot. I was like, “Sure.” And that’s where we really not met, but started to see each other, started to talk, started to just … The concept, the quantity of time can create the quality of time, so

Just a little bit.

 

Marlin Miller:

You guys are married for just a little bit, right? Yeah. I

 

Katie Miller:

Mean, you just got married. December. December.

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah. So we’re almost around that nine months.

 

Marlin Miller:

So what has it been like for you to step into Zach and his three kids? I mean, they’re all teenagers now. I mean, basically Kasha’s 12.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

What has that been like for you?

 

Katie Miller:

Well, it’s been a challenge. We have really fun days and there’s really good days and in the grand scheme of things, I hear stories of other people and I’ve heard the stories of the stepkids being awful to stepmom or stepmom being awful to kids and all of those stories where it doesn’t sound good at all and it doesn’t sound like a good way to be treated on either side. And so I think in the big picture, when I take myself out of the everyday feelings or those moments, the kids have been really accepting of me. I think we’ve all gotten along fairly well. And so I think in that viewpoint, it’s been really, really great. I haven’t had anyone say anything terrible things about me or I don’t get the every day, “You’re not my mom,” or any of that stuff, but it has its challenges.

And when you’re in the day to day, you have to … I think one of the biggest things for me has been giving up this letting go of the idea of what I thought it would be like once I was married. I’ve owned a house before. I’ve had that before and so I’m 30 right now and so it was a long … I thought in the Amish community, I thought I was going to be married at 21 and done, and that’s not how life went.

So I had this idea of what I thought it was going to be like once I was married and everything would be in its place and I would have my own things and it would be, there’s these steps that you take and it obviously hasn’t been like that. And it’s learning how to start a new life with a husband, but also having teenagers and also having kids that miss their mom and they don’t know how to express their emotions or they don’t want to deal with them and it’s learning how to have my things, but have to coexist with what mom had with … And like Christmas last year did not … And look how I imagined that Christmas would be like.

We decorated the tree with all of their things, and it’s okay, but it was still one of those things that was hard for me because I have a vision as what I always thought that my house would look like or how I would want to decorate. And you could just have to learn how to let that go or like how to incorporate the two together. So I think that’s been the biggest thing of learning how to mesh and to blend the two so that the kids feel like it’s … So that the kids feel like it’s home, but that it doesn’t feel like it’s someone else’s house for me.

 

Marlin Miller:

That has to be a very hard thing.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

I mean, can I ask how the kids are doing today? How old were your three kids when they lost their mom?

 

Zach Miller:

So because I was 15, almost 16. Zion was 12 and Kasha was nine. Yeah. And that’s part of it too. It’s like not just the age that the actual death occurred, but like, I’ve studied trauma a whole lot more than I ever thought I would, because to both deal with your own grief and the loss, and like I said, it’s more like that car wreck type thing, or like as I’m trying to understand the kids as they go through it, and many times it’s more like a traumatic brain injury, grief is, really, it messes everything up. So there’s both the event of her actual passing, but it was all the years in between. If you really go back, Kaylee was diagnosed in 2016. So for the last nine years, and if you think about even my oldest, her being 18, at age nine, she suffered her first trauma of mom got diagnosed with breast cancer, might die type stuff.

And so if you think about Zion was like six and five, and then Kacia was like three. Kasha, the youngest, has never known life without mom being sick or dead. Wow. So those things, understanding and that people heal and grow it different, we have gone through so many different stages and points and roller coasters and stuff like that. And like, I think the oldest now, she just started college. I think it’s actually nice for her to be in a completely new place. She’s on the East Coast now and everyone else, all the other freshmen is all new, but the last two and a half years, she’s had to wrestle through all those emotions. And I think to a degree, she’s dealt with some of the stuff and she knows to a degree who she is and I think she’s appreciative. She takes a different take on even Katie than I think the other two of that she just is like, she sees me, my oldest sees me as a person, and so she’s so excited that Katie’s here to be in my life and to do life.

And then she was so glad when dad didn’t have to make the meals anymore, but Katie made the meals, like food, quality, highly improved, the moment that Katie or just even things got taken care of or stuff like that. But I think in a way, Katie coming into the home was, “I can actually step into my life because dad’s okay for the oldest.” And I think she’s starting to live- Interesting. She’s starting to live her own life. I still get a phone call here or there of, “Hey dad, guess what? Or can you help me with this?

” And on her journey of faith and her journey of life, she’s still many more steps to take, but I think she’s probably at the best acceptance of what has occurred. Whereas my son, I think it’s still really hard for him to accept what has occurred. And almost similar to my youngest, it’s almost been his entire life and he was very tight with Kaylee and so he is still going through adolescence, going through, he’s 15, almost 16, and that season of trying to figure out just who he is as a man, and yet the past has been so turbulent that he’s still struggling, significantly struggling, and that’s been hard. I think it’s been hard for him, it’s been hard for us to be honest, but I mean, I go back to I can pray and that’s what I said about redemption. This is a really cool story that when I first ended up in the beefy too, the part that made it worse, and I apologize to anyone that lives in Louisiana, but it’s not my favorite state.

 

Katie Miller:

He said he would never move back.

 

Zach Miller:

I know, so probably the Lord would move me back. I’m willing to learn. It was hot, humid, and no breeze. But anyways, so I was stationed there finally beefy too. That was part of the reason I was bitter because I was hot because I don’t like being hot. Anyways, I had basically had sod done in our backyard and they did a terrible job, the people that put the sod in. And so because of that, there was these roots and thistles that grew in and I was mad the whole time and got letters from the HOA once, too many stuff. And literally the week that I was about to sell the place in, we were going to get stationed back in Colorado and this was 2011, I go out to pick the weeds for the last time and I was just like mumbling under my breath.

I was like, “I can’t believe…” I was like, “I should have done this better or whatever.” Zion goes out with me and he’s about two at the time. He goes out with me and I’m picking the thistles and he finds a little ladybug on one of the thistles and it is the most fascinating thing in the world to him. And in that moment, it redeemed that whole thing, like the four years of dealing with those thistles and being mad about the thing and he was fascinated somehow like that eclipsed everything. And that’s been this part that’s been a … It’s been recently, God’s actually caused me to see a couple ladybugs here or there.

 

Marlin Miller:

Really?

 

Zach Miller:

And we don’t have a lot of bugs in Colorado period, and I’ve seen some. And just kind of similar thing, like I by faith believe there will be redemption someday in some way, just like I couldn’t see it at the beginning, but at the end, and that will eclipse, but that’s kind of one of the faith parts to just … We’re still in process. I mean, that’s a thing we’re … Wow. So that’s where he’s at. And then the youngest, I think … I don’t know how I’d describe … She has many different facets. There’s a part of her that in some ways she never knew Kaylee, not sick. So in some ways, I think it was easy for her whereas because I and Zion had known Kaylee prior to her being sick and then afterwards, Kasha never knew that. And so I don’t know if that’s made it maybe easier for her in a way, because I think there’s a part of Kasia now that’s just relieved that mom’s not in pain anymore and she’s got a caretaking heart.

And so she would actually take care of Kaylee sometimes. And so in some ways, I think Kasha’s had more permission to just be a little girl and … I don’t know. I mean, she’s going through, she’s going to turn 13 in a couple months and we’re going through the adolescence things too, but deep down she likes baking and so she and Katie have done that and she loves … She’s probably, of all three of the kids, she’s most apt to take to some of the homesteading stuff less than Katie and I, but a little bit more like that. And I think part of what I’ve learned about the whole grieving thing is that in time at different seasons, she’ll have to deal with some of those things. But I think in this instant, she’s doing pretty good putting that next foot in front of the other and just of accepting what is.

And that’s been refreshing too.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah. Well, I will say this morning at breakfast, which that’s where she is right now,

 

Zach Miller:

Is

 

Marlin Miller:

Hanging out with Lisa and our kids. But this morning at breakfast, I could tell really quickly, our kids are a fascinating and very quick judge of character, as you probably know with Arthur, and they took to each other pretty well, I think pretty quickly. And watching your daughter with the animals and our kids, it’s obvious that there’s a caretaking and a caregiving and just this really, really empathic little young lady there. Why don’t we take a little break? Yeah.

 

Zach Miller:

Okay.

 

Marlin Miller:

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Katie Miller:

You had made the comment earlier about a pilot in an Amish family, and I wanted to … When you said that, I was like, oh, I have to mention this. My mom, when, I don’t know, when I was telling them that I had met Zach or whatever, and when was that? You came for Jonathan Joanne’s wedding. June or July. They came from my nephew’s … He came to my nephew’s wedding for the first time and met my family at the same time. And so there was six … I think I have 25 … No, at this point, I think it’s 23 nieces and nephews. So I have a lot of nieces and nephews. And so he was able to jump right in and meet everyone. And at the wedding, he talked with a lot of … It was really great. But my mom, when I told her, she asked, I think my parents were asking what he does, and I was like, “Well, he’s Air Force and he’s a pilot for United.” And she said, “A pilot wants to come be with some Amish people?

 

Marlin Miller:

” I can imagine that it’s a bit of a … Has there been any friction

 

Katie Miller:

With you

 

Marlin Miller:

Marrying a guy in the military?

 

Katie Miller:

No, really, no. And one thing I’m so grateful for my family, so I have three siblings that aren’t Amish. My parents both have six or five siblings as well, and my mom has a brother that’s not Amish, and then my dad has two siblings, two brothers that aren’t Amish either, and then from there I have lots of cousins. And so it’s one of those things that has … It’s not uncommon in my family to not be Amish. And that’s one thing that my dad has always said that … My dad’s a minister, and he’s always said that he, as long as his kids and grandkids have a relationship with the Lord, that’s all that matters. We’re all going to the same place, we’re not going anywhere special just because they’re Amish or … And so we’re all going to the same place, and as long as we have that relationship, that’s all that really matters.

And my grandpa, my dad’s dad, was actually … And this is not something that they ever really … My grandpa didn’t enjoy talking about it, but he was in the Navy, so he was not Amish when he met my grandma. Really? Yeah. So he was an Amish. And I forget what … I don’t know if he was some … He wouldn’t have even been Mennonite, so I’m not quite sure exactly. I need to ask my parent, my dad again, but he wasn’t Amish. And then he met my grandma and they got married right before he was drafted. Wow. But yeah, he was a medic in the Navy. Yeah. No kidding. So it’s one of those things that it’s not uncommon or we’re not … And it would probably … If Zach was divorced, it would probably be a little bit different. And I think one of the questions Zach had when he came out, when he was coming to the wedding specifically, is, “Are people going to … Are they going to have feelings about me being military?

How are they going to feel about that? ” And afterward, after the wedding, I said, “We’re used to … ” Because I said, “I don’t think anyone’s going to have … No one’s going to have a problem with it. They’re going to be interested.” And after the wedding, I said, “Were you surprised?” Because so many people were so interested,

Correct?

 

Zach Miller:

Well, yeah, Joanna’s dad,

So basically your nephew’s wife’s … The father-in-law were sitting at the wedding and they’re opening presents at the end and literally we’re just talking airplanes the whole … And so we actually, we interacted with them on and everything like that, and they were wanting to watch the fly by. So yeah, not just the fascination, but just the true understanding of all those things and the appreciation of it and just the choice to … I think I’ve seen the choice of the decision to be Amish. I like that it’s a choice. And I see that, especially within your family, that it’s a choice and it’s not this thing that’s above everything else. It’s a choice of a lifestyle. And even us choosing to be homesteaders or us choosing to be more either old fashioned, traditional, like that’s a choice that we’re making. And it’s not necessarily a judgment on everyone else, but it’s a choice of like, we find value like Kasha, she chose to be at your house.

She actually asked if she could do that because what Lisa was going to do, that sounded fun to her

 

Marlin Miller:

As

 

Zach Miller:

Opposed to just sitting type thing. So it’s felt way more natural than I had thought it would be because it’s once again, going back to the heart, like that’s the thing of like, I love her dad’s Jerry’s heart. If you met Jerry, you’re just like, he truly loves people. He loves his family, but he truly loves people and he loves the Lord. And because of that, then everything else is like, we’ll figure it all out. That’s all secondary. That’s all secondary. The core things are settled and that’s like with her family, there’s not second rate citizens. Everyone, we’re just all … We choose a little bit different.

 

Marlin Miller:

Oh, that’s so good. So let’s jump into the Arrow School for me. You and Kaylee began that a long time ago.

 

Zach Miller:

Right. Yeah. So it’s actually really interesting. It goes way back to growing up homeschooled. My brother and I always were looking at our peers and the whole community of like, “Hey, when you grow up homeschooled, you grew up with these morals and you grow up with this intellect and you understand history and timeline and all these…” And even like the theological and worldview and everything like that. And yet you still have to interact in the world, not be of the world, but you have to be in the world. And we knew some homeschoolers that could do that well and we knew some that could not. And so we were like, “Well, would it be cool if there was like this thing that kind of helped maybe like take that 16 year old that was maybe awkward or couldn’t interact and was maybe even judgmental and like taught them how to listen and how to learn and how to interact type stuff.” So my brother and I talked about it years ago and then it just kind of kept stirring in my heart that, “Hey, the question of, I thought you became a man when you turned 18 or 25 or you got married.” And I realized, “Hey, there’s a lot of boys around me at every age.” I see five year old boys and I see 15 year old boys and I see 45 year old boys and I see 75 year old boys and I interact and I work with them.

I was like, what? So it just kept stirring this thing and then I think maybe it was the time I was at the academy, but God just could put it in my heart to start basically a young men’s eventually gap year program, but just really a true training program, just like we do pilot training. Pilot training takes about a year, but I was coming with this concept of like, how could you actually train some, taking a boy and go through some training steps to truly help them take steps into manhood? And so it was actually, I told you that I went on that hike with Kaylee, I literally told her that day that that’s what I felt God was calling me to do.

 

Marlin Miller:

Before you were dating

 

Zach Miller:

And- Oh yeah, just like who I am. So literally I told her on that hike, that first hike, so literally we’ve known each other maybe an hour at that point. I told her that that’s what I was going to do one day of like I was going to start a young men’s school. And so I just kind of kept starting to process that anytime I made a mistake or anything like the whole B52 thing, I was like, “I can view it as that’s a mistake and I’m mad that that happened.” Or I can just say, “No, God’s just given me more material to teach from and to learn from and wisdom and stuff like that. ” And so kept reading and kept … I would disciple young men along the way, all sorts of different peers sometimes or younger men in church or stuff like that.

And then finally, the most formal is when we were down in Texas. In 2019, we were helping out with the youth group at our Bible church down there in Del Rio, Texas, and we were helping with the Sunday school and Kaylee just looks over at me like, “These guys are morons and so why don’t you start…” And this is basically with the middle schoolers and high schoolers. And I was always thinking I was going to work with 18 to 25 year olds. She’s like, “These guys are just, they need help, Zach. Why don’t you stop talking about this and start doing it? ” So I started this thing down there through the church called ADT, Adventure Discipleship Training. And we basically were like, “Well, let’s take all these thoughts that I’ve had and let’s beta test them.” So we’d meet once a week and we would do them like ropes course or leadership reaction course, military type stuff where we’d give them scenarios, even like dumb things and just like have them pitch a tent without you doing it.

And it was hilarious and sobering at the same time. The instructions are on the flap of the Coleman container and they didn’t look at the instructions. And you would give them scenarios and they would just rush in with no wisdom, no forethought, stuff like that. But I taught them to memorize God’s word, taught them how to have a quiet time, gave them a very rudimentary, just like rubrics. We came up with this thing called Dr. MJ acts basically of what’s the date. So literally like this mnemonic for a quiet time, the date and what did you read and then what are you memorizing and then your journal. So that’s the Dr. MJ and then the acts of the adoration, confession, Thanksgiving supplication. Basically giving them all these tools to actually of, I would say any man that I know that has really walked with the Lord has a quiet time, a consistent quiet time.

So I’m going to give these young men a tool, a mnemonic that they’ll never forget to do that. And then we came up with some different mantras and we did like exhaustive canoe trips across Lake Amistad like miles and we pushed them further than they thought they could go. And we did different scenarios and just put them in uncomfortable situations that they could overcome and we push them and stretch them further than they thought they could go. And then COVID hit and had a lot of time. So actually started the website and started recording first few podcasts. I need to keep going with that, but basically was like, “Well, let’s take this first beta thing and let’s cement it. ” And then that’s basically that year is when we were getting ready to move up to Colorado because when Kaylee got diagnosed with stage four, the military did a humanitarian move from us from Del Rio up to Colorado for medical coverage and We had family in the area and everything.

And then that fall, Kaylee started to stabilize and so kind of prayed about it. I’m just like, we’d had a lot of connections in the community already with a lot of the families that we’d homeschooled with and church and everything. And so I wrote a letter to about eight young men. I’m like, I want to invite you to join the Arrow School for Men. And four of them accepted. And we basically started meeting every Tuesday night and just basically just very focused discipleship with our mantra that a real man provides for and protects others spiritually, emotionally and physically. So many times within the church, we’ll maybe just focus on the spiritual or maybe like, I think most men understand the concept of just physically providing handy being a paycheck in or healthcare type stuff. But we thought we need to grow men and literally these are six areas.

And especially the emotional. That’s the one that a lot of times guys don’t go there. They don’t know how to go there. They’re not connected with a wife or a woman or they objectify women. And so we just basically just every week started just chipping away of we would do some of the practical stuff. We would teach budgeting, teach scheduling, teach. We do this exercise called Dolores. We basically, I borrowed this from a pastor, his name is Erin Stern. When I was in a young adults group, basically you come up with your dream woman, your dream wife. And we use Dolores because no one gets called Dolores anymore.

 

Katie Miller:

Maybe in some Amish communities.

 

Zach Miller:

But anyways, so basically you come up with your ideal woman of like, what is she like personality like? What does she look like? What does she do? What’s her interests? Is she this? Is she that? And we try to make it very, very specific. And then we say, okay, let’s reverse engineer it. Who is she looking for? So if you’re looking for a woman that’s in shape and athletic, are you in shape and athletic? You’re looking for a woman who can cook. Do you think she’s going to want to make every single meal, but maybe you should learn how to make a couple meals? And all these different things. And the cool thing is we started to show them, and we did this in a lot of other areas too. Come up with a blueprint of why don’t you start aiming to be that man and then you’ll attract that woman.

And just basically, this is the whole thing at Aeroschool is we want to give practical, not just theoretical of just have more time with God. No, we are going to memorize this section. We are going to memorize Proverbs three: one through 12. We are going to do these activities and we’re going to learn these traits and we’re going to develop the tenacity, but also just the practical how to do business development plans and brainstorming of like, where do you want to be in five years? And so we’ve done all those things. And so we started that back then.

 

Marlin Miller:

The only thing that I could think of as you were saying that was you’re building the same foundation that the academy taught you. Read some of the classics. Be able to think for yourself, right?

 

Zach Miller:

Yep.

 

Marlin Miller:

Am I understanding it?

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah. And that’s the concept, like the core. So the academy gives you a couple things. You have the core curriculum and then you also, you develop the brotherhood. And there’s women there too, but like there’s this thing of a crucible. Like you go through, like I told you, we did thousands of lunges. Well, I have that shared, painful memory, but if I talk to Josh Schneider or Marcy Friend or Anthony Felix, they’re like, “Yeah, we remember that. We remember that. ” And we all went through that and that was- It’s a huge

 

Marlin Miller:

Bond.

 

Zach Miller:

That bond. And when you go through pilot training with your classmates. So that’s what we’ve done over the last four years now. So this started in the fall of 21, basically as the school year started. And we did Wild at Heart together and then we’ve done parts of like Three Kings and I want to do The Way of the Disciple. And so working through some of these different books and then just also like we basically, part of it is like we have paper Bibles. You literally have to show up on Tuesday night with a paper Bible. And if you don’t, you get the family Bible.

 

Katie Miller:

We’re

 

Zach Miller:

Just huge. And it comes out and we have inside jokes and those types of things. But now after four years of us doing that, and then we started basically, we started doing encampments. And that’s like part of the encampment is it’s a six day thing that I have the 18 and 25 year olds, they run for 11 to 17 year old young boys. We basically, so they’re basically, the guys I weekly disciple get to practice being a father for six days

Because they don’t just play. There’s not just a camp where they get to go play. No, literally we wake up at 5:30, and we usually do it in June out in Kodapaxy. They wake up at 5:30 and they do physical training. They do running, pushups, practice boxing, tug of war, you name it type stuff. And then we have quiet times. So we practice it. We teach them. So we instill that in their formative from at an 11 year old, “Hey, as a young man or as a man, I have a quiet time. And if I look over there, yeah, Coach Sack’s having a quiet time too.” And then we do breakfast and then we do manual labor. We build cabins, structures, trails. My guys can build an amazing trail. We have this one that looks like astegosaurus. They put some flat rocks that stick up and it just looks iconic type of thing.

Well, we’re teaching them how to work. And so the cadre, the 18 to 25 year olds get to learn how to motivate a 12 year old to work with a pickaxe, with a shovel. And then we do lunch and then we play because when you’re interacting and trying to raise a young man, they have to play. A lot of life is learned through play. And so we will raft, white water raft. We have the Arkansas River less than a mile from our place. We’ll rock climb. Sometimes we’ll do horseback riding. We do different adventures, intense capture the flag, like intense capture the flag. We actually even had a mutiny last year and I captured the flag that my son was a part of the mutiny and it was like, “You guys are genius. We need to figure out a better way to do this. ” But the cool thing is now some of these guys have been in it for four years, some of them three years, some two years.

Now they’re running the cadre, the 18 into 22 year olds, 25 year olds, they’re running the encampment and we’re providing the oversight there. And so they’re doing those core things. And so this is like the actual culmination type thing, but the real work is that weekly, that connection, that digging into the word and they’re teaching, now they’re leading the Bible study a lot of the times. They’re teaching the practical. I have one guy who’s welding, he comes and teaches welding. I have one guy who’s a business developer and so he taught business development all winter this year. But yeah, like you said, it’s this core thing and that’s my hope is that over time it continues to develop that we can bring like a lot of like the Summit ministries and biblical worldview. I want these young men to be well versed in that. I want them to be well read, well spoken and yet at the same time, like they can swing a hammer, they can use a pickax, they understand how to operate a chainsaw.

We do marksmanship. They all know how to … I mean, literally we have 11 year olds that are operating weapons in a military like set up of like when we’re doing really range control and teaching them all the respect. We’re teaching them how to have the proper respect for tools, but we’re not just giving them with physical tools. We’re giving them emotional tools. So we talk a lot about women because a lot of men I think have a wrong conception of women. So we really spend that time of, you need to observe the whole woman, do not just objectify her. So it’s all these different things that we’re giving them tools, but also it’s a community and it’s multi-generational. And like we just became a nonprofit and our board, I’m so proud of our board, our oldest member is 72, and then our youngest member is 22.

Wow. So we have seven board members and one’s in their 70s, one in their 20s, and then the other five of us are in our forties. And that shows what we want. I need that wisdom of the 72 year rich who’s done many, many boards and stuff like that and financial. And then I also need, my youngest guy, Zach Edwards, he gets the concept of the brotherhood and he’s the one that has been very committed for the last four years to just grow in that thing. So we’re creating a brotherhood, we’re creating community and we’re doing like difficult things, hard things, pushing up … If I know someone doesn’t want to do manual labor, guess what? They’re going to do manual labor. And if someone is pretty good with manual labor, but doesn’t work on a computer, yeah, you get to do stuff on a computer.

We’re doing that because that’s how God is raised and developed and discipled me.

 

Marlin Miller:

I just read a very public figures thoughts on his sons and I’m not going to mention his name, but he said, “The next generation, the future of our country depends wholly on manhood and the development of our children, our sons, specifically go shoot, go jump out of a plane, go all of those things.” And he said, “If we drop the ball, who is going to step into that role? Who’s going to take on those roles of all the things, watching out for the family, watching out for the people around them.” I absolutely love everything that you’re doing out there. How can we help you in that? Are you financially, are you … Every nonprofit can use more money. I mean, I’m an idiot, but I’m not that dumb. How can we pray for you guys? I mean, just as a family and also as a nonprofit, how can we pray for you?

 

Zach Miller:

Well, there’s a challenge to not … It takes a lot of emotional energy and then there’s a lot of spiritual resistance when you go into this and actually say, “No, we are going to raise men and we are not going to bow to anything around us.” And so we’re not naive to that there will possibly, and at some point be either both litigation or just even on the emotional front of that there has been challenges to just take a step and take a step, take a step. So the main prayer is Lord, and it was so cool. One of my young men, literally like last week in our Tuesday night group said this thing that he had heard from another man, because we’re just talking about what’s the last thing of wisdom you just heard. And he said this and I’m like, “That’s good.” To not just let God be the first priority and then have these other priorities, literally just both that God is my priority, but that he is in everything else that I do so that I don’t do, “Hey, I’m going to go put on my aeroschool cap right now.” There have been times, and this is where we ask you to continue to pray, there have been times where I got a phone call from either Katie or my older daughter, like in the middle of men’s group and I feel like a conviction, I need to go take care of my family first.

I’m actually going to teach these young men wrong if they see that I prioritize the ministry over my family and I see that that is going to be a continual challenge as we grow.

 

Marlin Miller:

Right, right. For them to see you live it out.

 

Zach Miller:

They have to see me live it out because yes, they’ll hear what I say, but I’m not naive going back to what you said, like when I fly and I’ve been an instructor pilot, I’ve taught flying for 13 years and a good demo, if I show a maneuver to a student correctly, there’s like a very high likelihood they could replicate it. But if I do a poor demo, someone else is going to have to fix that. They’re going to have to change that picture in their mind. So them actually seeing, okay, Katie calls Zach’s wife, because some of them are married and some of them are not. Zach’s wife calls or she comes and asks for something or his kid needs something. Is the ministry or his family first or is God or the family first? They’re watching what I do. So I think that’s probably the biggest thing just for us as a couple is yes, this is important and yes, it deserves time and heart, but to never let my ministry, even to the Lord ever come secondary, like that’s the first thing that God has put on my heart.

It’s like, I need to just sit with God and be with God. Just like we just sat this morning just and did relationship with your family, with my family. I need to do that with God and with my family first. And if Katie ever feels like she’s playing sick and fiddle to this or my kids as well, like so that’s probably the first place just of the prayer support. And I would love to develop a prayer team that truly bathes us in prayer and helps us to be led by the spirit because I’ve seen so many other organizations either lose their mantle or go off path. And so just keeping the main thing the main thing. So that’s probably the first thing is just for the strength and the courage to do it because it’s arduous at times and you feel the resistance at times.

What about, what would you say on that?

 

Katie Miller:

I think as we, what I had been saying earlier is we continue, this would be prayer for the family as time continues on and we don’t know what’s coming down the road, but as time continues on and we all grow separately, we all grow together, that we would, that the prayer is that we would continue to grow together and like,

That we would have that connection of a family. There’s been, bonds have been broken and you know, trust has been shattered in some area and there’s been all these different things that have happened. And I hope that one day down the road that we can all see the good that has come from us getting married and living life for the Lord and just that it would all come together and that the kids would be able to see that and that relationships would be restored because they can see the value of coming back or being with family would be the prayer.

 

Zach Miller:

Yeah. And that we create an environment, I think that’s our hope is that we create an environment where there is laughter like of like, there is freedom, there is a place where people want to be, that there is, things are growing, that the redemption, that part I was alluding to earlier of like, I want to see that and like there’s a part of me, I think a temptation just of like, well, let’s just go build this thing over here. This all mess was a mess and let’s just go build this over here. And rather, no, let’s let the Lord restore this because I see … Have you ever read the book The Chosen?

I mean, that’s a crazy extreme that the priest does to his son. He basically gives him the saden treatment, I think for four or five years type thing. That crucible that that son went through had value in … I don’t agree with it, but if you look at it completely holistically, in the end, was that son equipped to actually be the priest. And we know that like Hebrews five: eight talks about that. Though Christ, even though Jesus was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered and the desire and then he becomes the eternal, basically he creates eternal salvation out of … He greets the authority and all these different things through that in a similar way of, may Katie and I and these kids and this community … And that’s the thing, like I was talking about these young men, they went through this whole death with.

And they went on the other side and to help them see that God is not a Santa Claus. I do not see God as Santa Claus at all. I believe he’s this … I see him more as like a really good but tough football coach type thing that’s going to kick your butt and love you to death at the same time and it’s going to get you down the mud at the same time and they’re going to pick you up and like, “I’m so proud of you. Now get back in the mud type thing.”That’s the God I view.

But in that, that there can be that redemption and that there can be this life that we, yes, we fought through and we wrestled through these things and yet at the end there’s just like something very beautiful and like it talks about revelation three, “Buy gold from me refined in the fire.” I think that’s our hope is that there’s light out of this whole thing, that there’s life, there’s joy, there’s freedom, there’s connection, that we’ve created a community. That’s the thing too, we don’t want to build a program. I don’t want to do that and go back to Psalm 127 too, unless the Lord builds the house, I want to glorify the Lord and there be … And like Kasha’s life verse is Jeremiah 17: 78, “Bless the man who trusts the Lord whose hope is the Lord, for he shall be like a tree planted by the waters which spreads out its roots by the river and will not fear when he comes, but its leaf will be green, nor will be anxious in the ear of drought, nor will cease yielding fruit.” That’s the thing.

I think we desire that there become fruit out of this, out of this grain of wheat that’s died, all this death, we desire that it comes life out of this type of thing. And so that’s I think our hope and our prayer is that life can come, that reconciliation can come, that literally as if anything, like the concept of being creative too, like that brings me life as I start to be creative, that as I let my brain actually … Being a pilot is not super creative and so in some ways it’s really forced me to be very more structured than I would have normally been. But then there’s also this part of me that’s like super creative of like, we could do this and we can do this and it’s so fun. We had one of the young men that was working for us this summer, he grew up more in a probably like suburbia type thing and we live on some land and he was doing some yard work for us and he had this idea, he’s like, “Coach Zach, can I build something over here on our land?” I’m like, “Yeah, what do you want to build?” He drawn it all out and it was basically some logs and it was like a whole area in the shade that was like this logs and with grass and everything.

I’m like, “Yeah, do it. ” He’s like, “What really, really? ” And he had never been given the freedom or the permission just to build something in real life and he built it. And that’s really what we want to be able to do with Arrow School for Men and even just us doing our own homesteading too. It’s like Katie’s had all these dreams and like it makes me happy to see her start to, like how happy she has been to get these chicks and see their … And even some of my past, I was able to bring some of my past in or like I’m about to build my fourth chicken coop and I took some notes on yours today because I’ve looked at my … That’s part of taking what has happened in the past. It wasn’t all bad. I can bring some of that into and bless my wife and I love seeing her get excited about that.

And I know that she’s going to jump up and down. We finally get a cow and stuff like that. That is what we want and we want to afford that for other men and a community.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yeah. The thing that I think I appreciate the most about what you said that you don’t really just want to program, you are looking from my chair, you’re trying to build a place where you can actually share life with these young guys, good and tough and not bail when it gets tough. And I just think it’s wonderful. How and where do folks learn about the Aero School for Men?

 

Zach Miller:

So we have a website, www.aroschoolformen.com. So that’s got the information, our basic of who we are, like our encampment for next year. So we’ve got to have 36 slots for next year. We had 21 campers this year and we’re hoping we’ll fill all 36 and maybe have a wait list type thing. But our website is the best way you can give on the website, you can connect. We’re hoping to … We have a different model even of not just of just a donor base, but also we want partners. Literally we want business partners. I have connections with an Amish gentleman in Ohio that next summer, some of the young men that are going to work for me, I’m going to send them out to work and build with him next summer. Wow. So the concept of discipleship is we work together, going back to the apprenticeship type thing of bringing some of those things back, but we’re trying to build different business partners that want to bring our young men on board, disciple them as they work.

Like this summer, four of our young men went to Alaska and built a cabin up there and got a completely different experience. But yeah, our website is the best place for people to see what we’re doing, to give, our mailing list, all these different ways that we’re going to try to continue to share. Because like I said, our desire isn’t just even for it to there. We hope that we can inspire other communities to start a community similar, that we can help take our starter if you use like a sourdough type concept, like we’re going to give you our starter as well, and we’ll help you develop the multi-generational and the different skills. And so that’s as we’re developing more and more pieces of that. But for now, everything’s going to run through the website.

 

Katie Miller:

And you also have Instagram though.

 

Zach Miller:

We do have an Instagram. Yeah. And that one of our young men actually is the one who does … I’m not so tech savvy. So he puts together the videos. He actually is doing our promo video. They just put together for encampment.

 

Katie Miller:

That is also Aeroschool for men. Yeah. Okay.

 

Zach Miller:

And Facebook as well. Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

When does the encampment actually happen?

 

Zach Miller:

It’s June this year. I think it’s the June 14th through 20th, I think.

 

Marlin Miller:

It is in the summertime. Is the

 

Zach Miller:

Summertime.

 

Marlin Miller:

So all the way up through there, it would

 

Zach Miller:

Still

 

Marlin Miller:

Be open.

 

Zach Miller:

Yep, yep. Sweet. So yeah,

 

Marlin Miller:

It’ll

 

Zach Miller:

Be good. And it’s more just of like getting the word out there. You still are the only person ever said that I’ve ever heard say, “I’m going to help you raise money for … ” And I felt like that was of God. I was just like, you said you felt led to do it. And I’m like, it’s one of those things like I told you, God’s told me I’m never supposed to focus on that. Yeah. And so I’m supposed to create, like we’re having our first dinner in two weeks for basic donors and stuff like that. And then we’re trying to really clearly delineate what the funds would go to, all the different stuff like that. Yeah. Because we have some other really cool opportunities that as we walk them through, we might have access to a ton of land, like really cool land that we couldn’t ever afford that we might be given access to that we might go like, literally there’s buildings on it that needs to be rehabilitated and like we go in and we rehabilitate the buildings.

No

 

Marlin Miller:

Kidding.

 

Zach Miller:

Because that’s the part of it. If we go and every place we go, we just make it better. Better. We bring in life and we’re teaching these young men that’s what you do. That’s the concept of provision is you’re looking ahead or you’re creating these different things.

 

Marlin Miller:

Seth, what was Ryan’s question? The last podcast we did, it was Ryan Wolf and his, he started a thing, like a day service thing for kids with special needs and he said we would walk in to anybody and everybody that we could gain access to and say, “How can we be a blessing?” No strings attached. That’s right. I almost said no questions asked. That’s not right. No strength

 

Zach Miller:

Attack. He kept repeating that phrase.

 

Marlin Miller:

It was so good, Zach. God opened doors to where he can’t take any of the credit and it has exploded into, he’s trained churches in all 50 states and- I can’t

 

Katie Miller:

Remember, was it that many?

 

Marlin Miller:

50 countries or I want to say it was something unbelievable. It was huge and it was all because he just simply asked the question, “How can we help?” And I have a feeling that that’s what’s going to happen to you, but I don’t know.

 

Zach Miller:

Well, and you create goodwill in the community. We have one neighbor out in Kodapaksi near my land and so we have done service there twice our first year and our last year, we just did our third encampment. So this will be our fourth this coming year. And then like this year we also did at the local church that we’re … And then yeah, you literally just go and you give. And even with this generation when I’ve talked to some of the young people that I work with is you just, you have to give, give, give, give, give, and then eventually like you give content and you give stuff, you give, give, give, give it. And eventually they’ll completely trust and that’s … And then you can only do that, I think, if you trust the Lord’s going to supply you. If you give … And I have to still fight from this place of lack of like, “Ah, how is I going to do this if I don’t?” But if you give, then the Lord is the one that opens up doors and

 

Marlin Miller:

Stuff like that. And he takes care of it. It’s his thing anyway. Guys, thanks for being here. Thanks for taking the time. Thanks for making the trip. Thank you for crying out loud.

 

Katie Miller:

My goodness. It’s been so fun.

 

Marlin Miller:

Yes, thank you.

 

Katie Miller:

Yeah.

 

Marlin Miller:

I love everything about it. We’ve been publishing Plain Values for almost 13 years now, and about a year ago, the team and I decided to put together a compendium, a best of, if you will, of our favorite stories, the most impactful stories of all those years and invited is what we built out of those conversations. It is 194 and four pages, and it is absolutely a thing of beauty. We do a monthly gathering here where we just simply open our doors. It’s called Porch Time, and the story of how Porchtime came to be and how our family was invited into that, and how we are inviting you and every Tom, Dick, and Harry, anybody who wants to come, can come and hang out at Porch Time here at the office in Weinsburg. So it was such a natural fit to use the home of the founder of Porch Time and to call it invited.

You can find it on plainvalues.com on the shop page, and you can now consider yourself invited.

In his book, Rembrandt Is In The Wind, Russ Ramsey says that the Bible is the story of the God of the universe telling his people to care for the sojourner, the poor, the orphan, and the widow. And it’s the story of his people struggling to find the humility to carry out that holy calling. Guys, that is what Plain Values is all about. If you got anything out of this podcast, you will probably love Plain Values in print. You can go to plainvalues.com to learn more and check it out. Please like, subscribe and leave us a review. Guys, love y’all. Thanks so much.